No Deal Reached Between APFA and AA After 4 Days of Talks

[Skymess]

Yes, but that six weeks includes quals on more than one equipment type, and all the aspects of the service delivery. If you remove service delivery, and bring it down to just safety functions on a single aircraft type, the timeframe can shrink, presumably to less than two weeks. There's plenty of precedent for this being approved by the FAA in the past, including 1993, but more recently, with NWA.

How long would it take to train replacement workers?
In 1993 it took 11 days
That was pre 9/11. Now they need fingerprints and background checks
*If they found people to train replacement workers (remember the trainers are FAs on trip removal), AND they ran the learning center for 24 hours a day 7 days a week, it would take them 1 year to train 10,000 flight attendants on 1 aircraft type.

 

[Skymess]

it sounds like the flt. attendents are just hell bent to go out on strike no matter what a quote form the dallas news

"This is about more than flight attendants and a contract, it's about standing up to the corporate greed that has brought our economy to its knees and destroyed the middle class in this country," she said"

I think the company moved a great deal in your direction you have to look at the big picture how things are changing on benefits threw out all corporations

That's not it at all. I'm pretty involved with the process and Laura and the negotiators are just determined to get us a decent contract that is positive overall while the company is trying to negotiate more concessions. APFA will not accept a contract that has more negatives than positives or one that shifts the pie around to equal what we have now. I'm grateful for that and stand firmly behind them.

 

[FWAAA]

How long would it take to train replacement workers?
In 1993 it took 11 days
That was pre 9/11. Now they need fingerprints and background checks
*If they found people to train replacement workers (remember the trainers are FAs on trip removal), AND they ran the learning center for 24 hours a day 7 days a week, it would take them 1 year to train 10,000 flight attendants on 1 aircraft type.

I think the APFA historian (assumed to be the source of this FAQ) is confusing the numbers. The 1993 strike was planned to last 11 days but the condensed training program was crammed into eight days of 12 hours each. I gotta assume that there are outsourced training companies that could handle the training - how likely are current APFA FAs to agree to train replacements?

That said, I don't expect AA to attempt to train replacements unless it intends to lock out and permanently replace the FAs (which I don't see happening).

A great quote from Ray Abernathy from the days leading up to the 1993 strike:

Another union spokesman, Ray Abernathy, said what sets this situation apart from past strikes is the huge number of flight attendants involved and the interlocking nature of the hub and spoke system used by American.

"American is also a profitable, rebounding airline, not one that's on the ropes," he said. "It has more to lose."

There's less of that kind of leverage this time around.

 

[Skymess]

I think the APFA historian (assumed to be the source of this FAQ) is confusing the numbers. The 1993 strike was planned to last 11 days but the condensed training program was crammed into eight days of 12 hours each. I gotta assume that there are outsourced training companies that could handle the training - how likely are current APFA FAs to agree to train replacements?

That said, I don't expect AA to attempt to train replacements unless it intends to lock out and permanently replace the FAs (which I don't see happening).

Yes, the answer came directly from the APFA. I think the point was that it would take a loooong time to even train a little over half of us for one aircraft type.

I agree with you that I don't think they plan on doing a permanant lock out.

I don't know how many FAs who work at the training center would scab and train replacements. I'd like to think all would not but you and I know that guessing the answer would be pointless.

 

[frontline]

What exactly does APA think it is going to get? They already work less hours than most others in the industry and get paid in the high range (whether or not they are "best paid" depends on who runs the numbers I suppose).

So what are they gunning for? 20% 30% 50%? Don't they know that AA will bring in TWA furloughed FA's if they walk? Not trying to be mean but just to point out that they really don't have a very strong negotiating position.

 

[Mach85ER]

What exactly does APA think it is going to get?

Do you mean APFA?

 

[Maark767]

What exactly does APA think it is going to get? They already work less hours than most others in the industry and get paid in the high range (whether or not they are "best paid" depends on who runs the numbers I suppose).

So what are they gunning for? 20% 30% 50%? Don't they know that AA will bring in TWA furloughed FA's if they walk? Not trying to be mean but just to point out that they really don't have a very strong negotiating position.

We'd like some of the 33 % in pay and benefits we gave up in 2003 to start. The company has the cash to pay us a decent contract. Dont believe all the bull they put in the press. It's time for us to get some of it back.
As for TWA F/A coming back to take our jobs, I dont think many would want to be labled Scabs. The union has told us it would take years to replace 16,000 F/As.... Not worried one bit..... Bring on the strike...

 

[Skymess]

What exactly does APA think it is going to get? They already work less hours than most others in the industry and get paid in the high range (whether or not they are "best paid" depends on who runs the numbers I suppose).

So what are they gunning for? 20% 30% 50%? Don't they know that AA will bring in TWA furloughed FA's if they walk? Not trying to be mean but just to point out that they really don't have a very strong negotiating position.

APFA is trying to get a contract that doesn't give back more or equal to what we gain. Our money is not just in pay it also has a lot to do with how many hours per day and how many days per month we work.

How many furloughed TWA flight attendants do you believe there are? There are not enough to even prop up the NY operation even if they ALL came back to work.

I predict we'll get a contract before a strike happens but it will take up to the last hours before a possible strike. I think AA is trying to see how long they can drag it out and how flexible APFA negotiators will be. I'll have to wait and see what the TA contains before I even guess which way the vote will go.

 

[Redhead1]

We'd like some of the 33 % in pay and benefits we gave up in 2003 to start. The company has the cash to pay us a decent contract. Dont believe all the bull they put in the press. It's time for us to get some of it back.
As for TWA F/A coming back to take our jobs, I dont think many would want to be labled Scabs. The union has told us it would take years to replace 16,000 F/As.... Not worried one bit..... Bring on the strike...

No Strike, No Furloughs, and a Recall before the end of this year!

 

[floatingon9]

No Strike, No Furloughs, and a Recall before the end of this year!

LOL! Best joke I have heard all day! AA wants us to strike so they can break the union. In fact they want to break all the unions on property.

 

[Maark767]

No Strike, No Furloughs, and a Recall before the end of this year!

You may be right about this... We shall see...

 

[Mach85ER]

We'd like some of the 33 % in pay and benefits we gave up in 2003 to start.

Maark767,

So would that put the total package at number 1 or 2 best for the job of flight Attendant in the USA?

 

[Redhead1]

LOL! Best joke I have heard all day! AA wants us to strike so they can break the union. In fact they want to break all the unions on property.

What I posted was not a joke. I was right on target. 2011, we will see the recall list cleared. This will probably happen before the middle of the year, and New Hire training will follow. AA is ready to expand and will do so.........

 

[Maark767]

What I posted was not a joke. I was right on target. 2011, we will see the recall list cleared. This will probably happen before the middle of the year, and New Hire training will follow. AA is ready to expand and so they shall do so.........

Yes no joke at all..... You were right on....
And I think you're right on with this info as well. I just heard from a pilot coming back from training that AA will be purchasing 33-35 777-300 and delivery will start in 2012.. So that surely will require new hires.
Also I think the F/A group will see a contract in the first quarter os 2011.

 

[jimntx]

What I posted was not a joke. I was right on target. 2011, we will see the recall list cleared. This will probably happen before the middle of the year, and New Hire training will follow. AA is ready to expand and will do so.........

Ok, you are either psychic or you know somebody who actually knows something. I heard through the grapevine that they are polling f/as with Flight Academy teaching experience about their interest in coming back to teach new hire classes. Now, I heard 2012 for new hires, but I think it may be sometime in 2011 that we see the first new hire class matriculate. (Don't you just love us English majors and our high-falutin' vocabulary?)