Flying low
Veteran
- Jul 19, 2011
- 629
- 232
So, that's why we haven't seen our leaders.
The most important reason to vote NO!
- Thread starter jetmechjer
- Start date
Mired in AA Mediocrity
Member
- Jun 3, 2012
- 17
- 29
Little Jim knew way back in '03 that the right response was exactly what the company told him towards the end of the piece of Kozitek 6 year contract when asking the Compaany to open it early because of the obscene profits the compaany was banking. All he had to say when they whined about cost was " We have a contract in place, and when it becomes amendable we fully intend to address your concerns."
Since we all are so very trusting of our corporate leadership, Particularly Mr. Horton ( The whiner that ran to SBC rather than take a small cut in wages and Bennies)
Lets impose this Title 1 POS LBO2 on the entire company....all groups...management......Flight Attendants......Pilots....Fleet Service...Eagle... Board of directors......Dispatch....sim techs... Facilities.....Automotive......and everyonre else not mentioned....we could call it ..........................
PULL TOGETHER WIN TOGETHER 2
The TWU int leadership would cut their compensation to match everyone elses....
The A1 pass club could be restricted to the employee on official business.....can't make money while you are giving your product away on a daily basis.
No more stock bonuses.....just simple profit sharing Comrade based upon full time work without regards to personal earnings......A full share for full time.....A partial share for part time........
AMERIKANSKI AIRLINES back to doing our best
Since we all are so very trusting of our corporate leadership, Particularly Mr. Horton ( The whiner that ran to SBC rather than take a small cut in wages and Bennies)
Lets impose this Title 1 POS LBO2 on the entire company....all groups...management......Flight Attendants......Pilots....Fleet Service...Eagle... Board of directors......Dispatch....sim techs... Facilities.....Automotive......and everyonre else not mentioned....we could call it ..........................
PULL TOGETHER WIN TOGETHER 2
The TWU int leadership would cut their compensation to match everyone elses....
The A1 pass club could be restricted to the employee on official business.....can't make money while you are giving your product away on a daily basis.
No more stock bonuses.....just simple profit sharing Comrade based upon full time work without regards to personal earnings......A full share for full time.....A partial share for part time........
AMERIKANSKI AIRLINES back to doing our best
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
I watched the Levine video twice, and still cannot ascertain what the message or purpose of the video really is.
She really says nothing that we do not already know.
She touches on some important issues but this does nothing to make we volunteer to give up:
Defined Pension
Retirement Medical
Job Securtiy
Overtime Work Rules
Field Trip Work Tules
35% Outsourcing of our Work
1 Week of Vacation
One Time - Undefined Restructuring RIF
AND NO Defined Equity Stake in the "New" Company managed by the same folks that got us here to begin with.
There is no question that some concessions are going to be obtained by AA, but this crap is too far reaching and I will never give it up as a volunteer, they will have to take it from me.
VOTE NO
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
-----For starters,one important thing to note is she dispells the rumor that the company needs Consenual agreements to exit bankruptcy. Clearly they do not!
-----The 4 billion in cash going into BK means Squat!
-----Sounds to me like the court could give a rat's ass we are at the bottom of the mechanic wage charts.
As I said before, I am willing to see this thing to the end, but we all may be in for a surprise should the judge abrogate, and we find ourselves in court fighting over the 6 year duration that the company seeks.
You have to keep in mind that Sharon is employed by the International, therefore she looks out for the Interests of the people who employ her, the International. This process costs the Union a lot of money, part of the settlement is that the company will pay the Union millions of dollars should we vote YES, they lose nothing. They dont lose their pensions, work rules or work at the bottom of the industry for six more years either. Sharon is a lawyer, not a labor leader, today she is argueing our case tomorrow she could argueing the companys case, she creates and puts forth an arguement for whomever employs her. Right now its the International, and they want their money back and the way they will get their millions from AA is by getting us to give AA billions.
Another thing you have to remember is that Sharon would like nothing better than to see us give in to this, merge with USAIRWAYS and form a mega carrier with super low wage rates. Now United and Delta (and everyone else) would be at a huge disadvantage. With AA having established that you can claim possible future finincial hardship as a basis for going into C-11, even though you still have huge amounts of cash on hand, to void and impose labor agreements, there is nothing stopping Airlines that are makeing huge profits from filing as well. Lets say AA gets to their $3 billion a year mark and UA and DL are sitting at around $400 to $500 million, they can claim thjat since their profits are so much less than AA they wont be able to attract investment and need to make the profits of AA in order to insure their long term survival. For Sharon this means steady work, and steady income. The Unions will continue to make settlements where the company reimburses them for all the expenses involved, so they lose nothing and they all get rich while we continue to take their advice and get poorer and poorer.
Nobody is saying that we will get treated fairly in BK court, but BK court is not the end of the process. The way to speed things up is to slow things down, or stop them completely. That will land us in a different court, the court that screwed everything up in the first place when they said that 1167 does not apply to all workers under the RLA, the court that said that Airline workers, and only airline workers have to continue to work under a unilaterally changed contract, in direct contradiction to what the RLA says. If anyone thinks this is going to get fixed without massive disrupotions to the system you are dreaming. What did Mike Quill say 50 years ago? You have to fight for it!!
Another thing you have to remember is that Sharon would like nothing better than to see us give in to this, merge with USAIRWAYS and form a mega carrier with super low wage rates. Now United and Delta (and everyone else) would be at a huge disadvantage. With AA having established that you can claim possible future finincial hardship as a basis for going into C-11, even though you still have huge amounts of cash on hand, to void and impose labor agreements, there is nothing stopping Airlines that are makeing huge profits from filing as well. Lets say AA gets to their $3 billion a year mark and UA and DL are sitting at around $400 to $500 million, they can claim thjat since their profits are so much less than AA they wont be able to attract investment and need to make the profits of AA in order to insure their long term survival. For Sharon this means steady work, and steady income. The Unions will continue to make settlements where the company reimburses them for all the expenses involved, so they lose nothing and they all get rich while we continue to take their advice and get poorer and poorer.
Nobody is saying that we will get treated fairly in BK court, but BK court is not the end of the process. The way to speed things up is to slow things down, or stop them completely. That will land us in a different court, the court that screwed everything up in the first place when they said that 1167 does not apply to all workers under the RLA, the court that said that Airline workers, and only airline workers have to continue to work under a unilaterally changed contract, in direct contradiction to what the RLA says. If anyone thinks this is going to get fixed without massive disrupotions to the system you are dreaming. What did Mike Quill say 50 years ago? You have to fight for it!!
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
Sadly, at the end of the day, we will not see a fight. Not by enough of us anyway to make a difference.
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
What the law does and does not require might be much different than what the Unsecured Creditors Committee might require. There is a difference. I have always maintained that a Plan of Reorganization aprroval from UCC is the stumbling block, not the law. The Law DOES require the UCC to appove a plan before any company will emerge from Bankruptcy.
IT doesn't mean squat in LAW but it damn sure means something to me!
The court even said the concessions of 2003 are meaningless, but I damn sure have not forgotten them and they are not meaningless to me.
The Court might not give a rats ass, but I damn sure do!
FEAR! And I have an extra rock I will loan you to hide under. Just let me know if you need it.
I think we have said all along that there is no legal requirement to have agreements, but that the creditors are not likely to approve a plan for exit by an airline without them. Show me a recent example where they have.
Sharon is trying to sell the deal because, one of the things she left out, the company will pay the union for all the costs the union incurred during the process, that includes everything from Lawyer fees to even lost time and meal expense from the Locals, if we ratify.
If we dont ratify then the International does not get the money, and its millions. Millions to give themselves raises, fund their defined benefit pensions, pay for their Caddilac Health benefit plans (why do you think the TWU was the only union to vote against Obamacare?), pay for the ten Holidays they spend with their families while we work for either no extra pay or half pay and keep them riding around in new cars paid for by our sacrifices. All the Locals , including 562 were told to submit expenses from December to present for all expenses related to Bankruptcy. Sharon is trying to get the people who hired her , not the members who have to live under the agreement, all their money back. That would make the International a happy client and would increase the odds that she will get more work,. When all this started the Line Local Presidents hired our own attorneys, but the International rejected our request to have them sit in on the process, now you know why.
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
Can you have your friend Levine, make that statement on video?
She said nothing that we did not already know!
VOTE NO!
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
Informer, YOUR opinion here is not the END ALL...
I too have been around for DECADES.
You view her video and come up with one set of conclusions, I come up with another.
BTW, I give a rat's ass too about what happens here.
And you too are going to have to live under what the LAW dictates in this court.
Maybe you are not a good reader, but I said i will see this til the end....good or bad.
But you too are going to be in for a rude awakening.
Now we also know why the International had a Presidents Council meeting scheduled for this week, so we are all tied up down here in Dallas instead of making up counterpoint videos.
All I can say is be prepared for an all out assault, a full blown fear campaign. We need cool heads and to simply look at the settlement. The International will get a few million, keep their A-4 passes and we will lose;
Our Pension,
Our Retiree Medical
Our System Protection
Our Overtime Rules
Our Bidding Rules (SJU has already posted a bid that violates seniority)
Our Field Trip Rules
Our RIF rules
Our PVs
Our Crew Chief Bidding rules
Our Just Cause for removal from CC
Our right to refuse OT (NY OT rules allow white slipping but there has to be an emeergency everywhere else)
Our right to refuse Field Trips without penalty beyond the hours worked
Our Medical-the company can raise our current rates by what they "project" medical will cost next year, we have to pay 21% of those projected costs, including administrative costs, of the plan.
We have to agree to what comes out to a 1.2% increase over the ten year period
We have to agree to do whatever it takes to make AA the best in class in return for them making us worst in the industry as far as working conditions.
We would still lose half pay for the first day we call in sick
We would still only get five sick days a year-worst in the industry
We would still only get five Holidays at half pay, again, worst in the industry, we lose 100 hours pay per year there.
We would lose another week of vacation, the worst vacation acrrual in the industry
And the company can outsource as much as they want, sure it says 35% but what does it say after that? Does it define a value for the other things, does it give a value for Taesl? What are the odds of the partnership continuing after the last 757 leaves?
All I can say is be prepared for an all out assault, a full blown fear campaign. We need cool heads and to simply look at the settlement. The International will get a few million, keep their A-4 passes and we will lose;
Our Pension,
Our Retiree Medical
Our System Protection
Our Overtime Rules
Our Bidding Rules (SJU has already posted a bid that violates seniority)
Our Field Trip Rules
Our RIF rules
Our PVs
Our Crew Chief Bidding rules
Our Just Cause for removal from CC
Our right to refuse OT (NY OT rules allow white slipping but there has to be an emeergency everywhere else)
Our right to refuse Field Trips without penalty beyond the hours worked
Our Medical-the company can raise our current rates by what they "project" medical will cost next year, we have to pay 21% of those projected costs, including administrative costs, of the plan.
We have to agree to what comes out to a 1.2% increase over the ten year period
We have to agree to do whatever it takes to make AA the best in class in return for them making us worst in the industry as far as working conditions.
We would still lose half pay for the first day we call in sick
We would still only get five sick days a year-worst in the industry
We would still only get five Holidays at half pay, again, worst in the industry, we lose 100 hours pay per year there.
We would lose another week of vacation, the worst vacation acrrual in the industry
And the company can outsource as much as they want, sure it says 35% but what does it say after that? Does it define a value for the other things, does it give a value for Taesl? What are the odds of the partnership continuing after the last 757 leaves?
I've worked without a contract before, more than likely so have you. Look at this deal, if we vote NO we continue to negotiate, while there is no legal requirement AA wants a deal in place. What is left that you think is worth accepting for at least six more years?
Rude awakening? Why, do you feel that Tulsa will be shut down tomorrow if we reject this? They dont have anyplace to send the work, thats why they are pushing as hard as they can to get this passed. I think Informer knows that either way, YES or NO that Tulsa will shrink over the next few years, but pass or fail I doubt we will see massive layoffs August 9th.
The International wants this to pass, Sharon works for the International, so does Tom Roth, their duty is to help the International get what they want, they do not care about what it does to us or our profession. They never were Aircraft Mechanics, never will be and dont work for Aircraft Mechanics. While they probably wont lie, they will omit and deliver a message that will favor what the people who are paying them want, this is what they do for a living.
She mixes facts with opinion and delivers it in a way that favors her client. Yes some of whats been put out there is not correct, such as the start of this thread, merger protection, for what its worth remains in place, but not much el;se of real value. Most of the important things are still yet to be written, written by the company with the union being informed of what they came up with.
She mixes facts with opinion and delivers it in a way that favors her client. Yes some of whats been put out there is not correct, such as the start of this thread, merger protection, for what its worth remains in place, but not much el;se of real value. Most of the important things are still yet to be written, written by the company with the union being informed of what they came up with.
