AA employees get 4% raises

[bigjets]

STFU? This a free forum last time I checked...
Feel free to put me on ignore.
Is there something wrong with you? Did you get a raise because I didn't!
 
...what a spineless  jellyfish you are. 
You sound like a spoiled brat who can't have debate without a rant of STFU!

Lighten up Francis.

The stfu was for the whiners at aa, I enjoy your posts, you make a lot of sense.

As Far as how long it will take for the nmb decision who knows, and with what bob writes on the forum, with being adversarial and being rediculis in his contract demands. No one knows for sure how long this will take. Not to mention the fight between the iam twu or association. so many unknowns.

Doing an illegal work action is out of the question, we have a contract, it's up to our Union leadership to expedite any negotiations. If we were non Union all this wouldn't be an issue.

 

[dfw gen]

What's ironic is that maintenance brought the twu on the property in the 40's.

 

[MetalMover]

Lighten up Francis.

The stfu was for the whiners at aa, I enjoy your posts, you make a lot of sense.

As Far as how long it will take for the nmb decision who knows, and with what bob writes on the forum, with being adversarial and being rediculis in his contract demands. No one knows for sure how long this will take. Not to mention the fight between the iam twu or association. so many unknowns.

Doing an illegal work action is out of the question, we have a contract, it's up to our Union leadership to expedite any negotiations. If we were non Union all this wouldn't be an issue.

You said ALL YOU WHINERS replying to my post. Sounded like the STFU was for me....
Anyways.Why I keep harping on the fact that negotiations could take years and the 4% that has a few people here giggly and giddy is because no one is considering the complexity of negotiations. The few people here hope the TWU "expedites" negotiations so they can get it on the 4% sooner rather than later. What they have not considered is the fact that if this BS alliance goes through, the TWU and IAM have different contracts. They each are going want to keep what they have. That is impossible. The bickering and in-fighting will drag this out. 
If it does drag out. all the 4%ers are not going to be happy campers.

 

[WeAAsles]

Go back and read all my posts......While and and NYer are cheering for a raise you didn't get yet.....My posts state that we should ALL have gotten the raise. but you are content to wait and say "we'll get ours when our JCBA is ratified."
 
Again I ask you and NYer...what if our negotiations take years? Will the 4% be retro?  Are you going to blame the mechanics once again?

No I doubt very much that the 4% will be retro past the date the company get's the SOC. JMO. That 4% is to push things along and don't be surprised if the company put's it out there after we start negotiating that if we don't get a deal by SOC that the 4% retro will be lost just so we will provide pressure to our own negotiators to not dawdle.

I just hope the Association doesn't tie us together that we have to wait if one group is there because the other one isn't yet. Again this is not Section 6 and if either one of our groups is done let them move forward and not be held hostage by the other group.

Obviously you can tell that I really don't want you guys to be tied to us and vice versa anymore. All I've seen in my career is the damage that's caused.

 

[WeAAsles]

And Metal where did you see ME cheering for a raise I haven't gotten yet? Congratulations to those who have though. I have nothing against anyone accepting it and enjoying it.

 

[MetalMover]

No I doubt very much that the 4% will be retro past the date the get the SOC. JMO. That 4% is to push things along and don't be surprised if the company put's it out there after we start negotiating that if we don't get a deal by SOC that the 4% retro will be lost just so we will provide pressure to our own negotiators to not dawdle.

I just hope the Association doesn't tie us together that we have to wait if one group is there because the other one isn't yet. Again this is not Section 6 and if either one of our groups is done let them move forward and not be held hostage by the other group.

Obviously you can tell that I really don't want you guys to be tied to us and vice versa anymore. All I've seen in my career is the damage that's caused.

Have you or anyone else given thought to what else has to be given up for them to match DL pay?
What is all this talk about pressuring the negotiators? Just for the 4% or to maybe get back some of the things we lost?
this is the problem I have with the 4%ers.....they don't want to be left out in the cold and may give the store away even further.

 

[MetalMover]

And Metal where did you see ME cheering for a raise I haven't gotten yet? Congratulations to those who have though. I have nothing against anyone accepting it and enjoying it.

You don't see that unfairness of this all? The raise was given to SOME because a successful 2014. Why are those who do not have a ratified JCBA being excluded?
If negotiations go on for any extended length of time and there is NO retro, then we will have been treated unfairly. No where in the company letters regarding this raise does it say RETRO.

 

[WeAAsles]

Have you or anyone else given thought to what else has to be given up for them to match DL pay?
What is all this talk about pressuring the negotiators? Just for the 4% or to maybe get back some of the things we lost?
this is the problem I have with the 4%ers.....they don;t want to be left out in the cold and may give the store away even further.

Holy crap bro you DO NOT know me. I absolutely have been thinking about the middle of the pie and what kind of filling will or will not be in it or taken out.

I'm by far not starry eyed about that extra 4%. I'm doing quite fine financially that I don't have to be a slave to it. The majority are and will be though and you and I know it.

I did laugh when it was announced though. From a tactical standpoint it was a brilliant move. Dangle the carrot and get the mules to move. We'll get the carrot but we're going to have to work for it if we really want it. That's the game plan.

 

[MetalMover]

Holy crap bro you DO NOT know me. I absolutely have been thinking about the middle of the pie and what kind of filling will or will not be in it or taken out.

I'm by far not starry eyed about that extra 4%. I'm doing quite fine financially that I don't have to be a slave to it. The majority are and will be though and you and I know it.

I did laugh when it was announced though. From a tactical standpoint it was a brilliant move. Dangle the carrot and get the mules to move. We'll get the carrot but we're going to have to work for it if we really want it. That's the game plan.

I fear we are going to be in for a rude awakening. And I am glad your are thoughtful of all the consequences. But there are others who want to get this done and over with. No need to rush this. 

 

[WeAAsles]

I fear we are going to be in for a rude awakening. And I am glad your are thoughtful of all the consequences. But there are others who want to get this done and over with. No need to rush this. 

I've been telling friends that I'm fine with a balance. Yes there are going to be items in both contracts that either side prefers but they have to be willing to compromise. And you're right that there is no "need" to rush this but there would come a time if we don't come to a deal that the company is just going to say basically "See you in 2018"

Think about it. We're not in Section 6, they have the synergies with the FA's, they may have the Pilots soon, and with us they already have half since we can now work US metal. Wall street and the lenders would be disappointed if they didn't have JCBA's with everyone but they'll survive.

 

[MetalMover]

I've been telling friends that I'm fine with a balance. Yes there are going to be items in both contracts that either side prefers but they have to be willing to compromise. And you're right that there is no "need" to rush this but there would come a time if we don't come to a deal that the company is just going to say basically "See you in 2018"

Think about it. We're not in Section 6, they have the synergies with the FA's, they may have the Pilots soon, and with us they already have half since we can now work US metal. Wall street and the lenders would be disappointed if they didn't have JCBA's with everyone but they'll survive.

Personally I do not see any reason for the company to get a deal sewn up.  See you in 2018 means no extra raise except for what's contractual.
And since profit sharing has been removed, it appears it would be a win for the company.

 

[WeAAsles]

Personally I do not see any reason for the company to get a deal sewn up.  See you in 2018 means no extra raise except for what's contractual.
And since profit sharing has been removed, it appears it would be a win for the company.

Maybe as INSANE as you might think this sounds, they're trying to make peace with us? Yes this is a business though and business still has to be factored in. Good business absolutely means having a happy and invested workforce. When I hired on it did seem like people were happier and we joked around a lot more and because of that I think we cared more also.

WE have to understand that we are not going to get back everything we want in one fell swoop. We also have to hope that we elected people to represent and negotiate for us that also understand this. If they start rattling off about the past and 2003 again you might as well through up your hands, put on your hat and go take a long walk cause then it really will take forever.

I just wonder when we stop being angry and screaming at the world for our lot in life. That just takes way too much energy for me personally. 

 

[WeAAsles]

Personally I do not see any reason for the company to get a deal sewn up.  See you in 2018 means no extra raise except for what's contractual.
And since profit sharing has been removed, it appears it would be a win for the company.

And they're going to use the profit to pay down debt and reward the shareholders for continuing to invest in the airline.

They're going to shore up the foundations. And after that is done then maybe we can talk about PS in the future if that's what we really want?

I like the guaranteed wages myself personally and then I'll invest in whoever I want to with that money.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Personally I do not see any reason for the company to get a deal sewn up.  See you in 2018 means no extra raise except for what's contractual.
And since profit sharing has been removed, it appears it would be a win for the company.

Exactly.  With the NMB helping the company by not ruling on the alliance, it gives them all the advantages.  Yes the TWU or the alliance will be pushed to rush negotiations and that could be disastrous for us.  We need to do so many things to clean up the mess Jim Little made that it can't be done in the short time that will be allocated for negotiations.  Actually the TWU and IAM should have an offer for the company by now.  The reason they don't is that they aren't talking to each other.  If this is how the alliance will work we are doomed.  Yeah the 4% is nice for those who are getting it, but I am not willing to continue with the benefits and work rules that are in place now.  If they claim they are going to pay us better than DL then that should include benefits.  I will not trade a quick 4% and not get my benefits back.  Of course there will be those who will jump at it and I pray they are a big minority.  I am hoping the majority of the AMTs are thinking about the big picture.  4% does nothing if we still get 50% sick pay, no longevity, less vacation and the work rules that Jim Little ushered in.  But the longer it takes for a deal the longer Parker and company enjoy the huge advantage they have when it comes to AMT pay and benefits.  

 

[WeAAsles]

Exactly.  With the NMB helping the company by not ruling on the alliance, it gives them all the advantages.  Yes the TWU or the alliance will be pushed to rush negotiations and that could be disastrous for us.  We need to do so many things to clean up the mess Jim Little made that it can't be done in the short time that will be allocated for negotiations.  Actually the TWU and IAM should have an offer for the company by now.  The reason they don't is that they aren't talking to each other.  If this is how the alliance will work we are doomed.  Yeah the 4% is nice for those who are getting it, but I am not willing to continue with the benefits and work rules that are in place now.  If they claim they are going to pay us better than DL then that should include benefits.  I will not trade a quick 4% and not get my benefits back.  Of course there will be those who will jump at it and I pray they are a big minority.  I am hoping the majority of the AMTs are thinking about the big picture.  4% does nothing if we still get 50% sick pay, no longevity, less vacation and the work rules that Jim Little ushered in.  But the longer it takes for a deal the longer Parker and company enjoy the huge advantage they have when it comes to AMT pay and benefits.  

You're forgetting that it's not just 4%. That 4% is in addition to matching the top out rate at Delta and another 3% for keeping Profit sharing out of the formula. Not factoring in ALL of the middle items you guys have or have lost do you know what Delta currently tops out at? How much higher is that than you currently and then add 7% on top of that.

And they don't need the advantage anymore after shedding debt and obligations in Bankruptcy and are poised with lower oil prices continuing on the horizon to rake in tons of profit.