AA and Labor Negotiations-2020

[bob@las-AA]

I am not sure if IAM has a closed shop or not?




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Looks like something the ancient Greeks would use to gird their loins with.

 

[ALUS78]

True but to put in perspective they operated i think 172 flights out of dfw

Yes LGA only 5 flights but 3 weeks ago those 5 flights( although the schedule seems to change daily) load factor was 19% but Thursday and Friday over 70%.Of course I don't know the airfares.And don't forget nyc is the epicenter yet people willing to fly

 

[swamt]

I noted it somewhere else, but saying "the industry won't be allowed to fail" is very different than "AA won't be allowed to fail" (or DL, or UA, etc.).

The debate at my work-and not on this board- is whether or not VLOA's and Early Outs will go far enough to mitigate massive layoffs come 10/1.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I think a lot of people in our industry are still in denial about just how grave this crisis is.

Agree with the debating at work. We are doing the same, but mostly over the phones. Yes, how well will the VLOAS and EO's keep from others getting layoffs, rifs and involuntary leaves.
As a guess as far as how many will be reduced? Well I would assume that the % would equal the same amount each airline needs to reduce their airline sizes too. BUT, hopefully we won't get that far if the rebuilding looks promising. Not wearing blinders, just very hopeful for the best, but realize if it doesn't we will see layoffs,rifs and involuntary leaves in large numbers.

Looking at AAportal no where what it was or should be but the system load factor is creeping up

Love hearing that AL. We too have been told that May bookings are picking up better and that the May month is starting to look better than they originally expected. So hopefully with the phase opening starting tomorrow (where I live DFW areas) maybe the flying will pick up a bit. I say the airlines NEED to make it "mandatory" for mask and/or face coverings on board aircraft for all people, crew and passengers and that will help with the rebuilding of getting flyers back up in the air. Make it safer for all and I think the economy will boost faster and safer in the short term. Hopefully May picks up and April does even better...

 

[V.O. Reason]

So can anyone here tell me WTH is going on with UA and the proposal of cutting all full time to part time and can AA do the same.
It would seem UA found a loophole in the CARES act that will allow for this especially with how the IAM has responded to it.

 

[swamt]

So can anyone here tell me WTH is going on with UA and the proposal of cutting all full time to part time and can AA do the same.
It would seem UA found a loophole in the CARES act that will allow for this especially with how the IAM has responded to it.

V.O., No loopholes. The cares act says they cannot layoff or cut pay, but says nothing about reduced hours. So maybe they are cutting hours at UAL. Once Oct hits you will see a huge change in airlines if they are still as bad as they are now. All airlines have said they will be smaller when we come out of this.
My answer for you is just a guess, I have no clue what is going on at UAL as far as what they are planning.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

So can anyone here tell me WTH is going on with UA and the proposal of cutting all full time to part time and can AA do the same.
It would seem UA found a loophole in the CARES act that will allow for this especially with how the IAM has responded to it.

i also saw and heard that. all full-timers to 22 hrs. a week by may 24.

i believe it's an issue that we've heard about for awhile, the united-iam contract and pt cap.

no one likes instability, but if what has happened with PT in my station/state, united is doing them a favor.

pt went to 15 hrs. a week. many had their hours cut, 5-10-15 hrs.

they are applying for unemployment, due to having their hours cut - they will receive MORE in unemployment benefits + 15 regular hours than FT earn with 40 hrs a week.

the feds are paying everyone $600 a week, atop of state benefits. that's the christmas present.

 

[1AA]

Reducing hours is a cut in pay.
Must be more to the story than we are hearing about.

 

[V.O. Reason]

V.O., No loopholes. The cares act says they cannot layoff or cut pay, but says nothing about reduced hours. So maybe they are cutting hours at UAL. Once Oct hits you will see a huge change in airlines if they are still as bad as they are now. All airlines have said they will be smaller when we come out of this.
My answer for you is just a guess, I have no clue what is going on at UAL as far as what they are planning.

Well what they are planning is cutting all full time to part time and I’m sorry but that is a BS technicality because that is a cut in pay just as if you were a salaried employee in that you have cut their monthly income by half.
This is for now not October so this is BS and if UA gets away with it then they should be forced to return the loan money .
I mean hell if I got cut to part time hours I’d be better of getting unemployment which by the way that’s exactly why UA wants to this to avoid paying out unemployment
It never ends with these heartless bastards in corporate America

 

[V.O. Reason]

i also saw and heard that. all full-timers to 22 hrs. a week by may 24.

i believe it's an issue that we've heard about for awhile, the united-iam contract and pt cap.

no one likes instability, but if what has happened with PT in my station/state, united is doing them a favor.

pt went to 15 hrs. a week. many had their hours cut, 5-10-15 hrs.

they are applying for unemployment, due to having their hours cut - they will receive MORE in unemployment benefits + 15 regular hours than FT earn with 40 hrs a week.

the feds are paying everyone $600 a week, atop of state benefits. that's the christmas present.

So are there PT caps in AA new agreement?
I’m not finding that language, so if not then we are screwed

 

[CremaDiLimone]

yes, i believe it's 32% for 2020..and then goes up 1% a year to 35% max cap.

 

[eolesen]

For many of us, being busted to part-time while maintaining healthcare at employee rates is still better than being laid off and paying for healthcare at COBRA rates. Presumably you also keep your seniority going, contributions to retirement, travel, etc., all of which eventually stop on layoff.

It also makes it much easier to retain people for when demand increases, versus having to recall and retrain from the furlough list.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

So are there PT caps in AA new agreement?
I’m not finding that language, so if not then we are screwed

page 157 in contract book.

current 32% pt cap, 1% annual rise up to max of 36%.

as far as aa's PTers...contractually, they are guaranteed 15 hours a week. when aa reduced their hours from 20 hrs/25 hrs/30 hrs a week - i don't believe aa violated the cares act, but that action triggers qualification for unemployment benefits.

aa said they will not contest unemployment claims. eventually, each state will find out the status of those collecting unemployment and that state will go from there.

 

[Kev3188]

Well what they are planning is cutting all full time to part time and I’m sorry but that is a BS technicality because that is a cut in pay just as if you were a salaried employee in that you have cut their monthly income by half.
This is for now not October so this is BS and if UA gets away with it then they should be forced to return the loan money .
I mean hell if I got cut to part time hours I’d be better of getting unemployment which by the way that’s exactly why UA wants to this to avoid paying out unemployment
It never ends with these heartless bastards in corporate America

Companies are simply taking advantage of weak wording in the Act. They took the language and are bending it to their advantage.

The CARES Act only covers base rates and RIFS/ it says nothing about hours worked.

It also allows for cutting up to 10% of the workforce now, but I digress.

Delta has already implemented a 25% cut in hours for all frontline employees (including mgmt.). JetBlue is having employees take 24 days off between now and 9/30.

I’m UAL’s case, they have the CARES Act language and terrible contract language on their side. No PT caps, and poorly worded Force Majeure put the workers in a bad spot. United will also likely frame this cut as wanting to avoid layoffs, put the IAM even further into a corner. It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I mean hell if I got cut to part time hours I’d be better of getting unemployment which by the way that’s exactly why UA wants to this to avoid paying out unemployment
It never ends with these heartless bastards in corporate America

they would still be on the hook for unemployment payments..

from what i understand, those in my state who have been approved - $484 a week from state, $600 a week from feds. this does not include those on leave at 25% of their wages or those PT still working earning 15 hours a week.

they are getting more than FT who have to come in for 40 hrs a week.

i remember some senators complained about the $600 a week from the federal govt...already, grumbling at work.

i don't believe i deserve the democratic proposal of paying $25k for a hazard/hero bonus. i'll take it. hopefully it will happen.

 

[Kev3188]

aa said they will not contest unemployment claims. eventually, each state will find out the status of those collecting unemployment and that state will go from there.

Not for nothing, Florida has told DL employees they will not pay UI benefits to those taking VLOAs.