AA and Labor Negotiations-2020

[CremaDiLimone]

Because on the UNION side ambition. work ethic, productivity, skill, none of that matters. It is all secondary to your seniority date. In fact many of those that have seniority think they are entitled to come to work and either do very little or absolutely nothing.


Case in point.

I mean really, why should seniority be "rewarded". Do you think you are entitled to a reward just because you have time on the clock? You think the company should give you special deals?

Your "reward" is you are topped out in pay and have more vacation. You get to bid better jobs, better shifts, better days off, and better vacation picks. Not to mention the job protection you get from all the people below you acting as layoff fodder. Seriously.... a reward for your seniority, Jesus Christ...... typical UNION entitlement.

People like you are why I got out of the industry.

I hope you never have to get a job in the "real" world because it is going to be a total shock for you.

"Reward", give me a f'ing break...........

ok, did you come down off your cross yet?

the reward is working alone. not, sleeping or watching tv.

you are mr republican around here, yet, now you sound like elizabeth warren telling the guy in iowa that no one cares he paid his student loan debt and that today's students will go to school for free.

when i started, there were plenty more 'specialized' shifts that guys hired in the 50s/60s/70s had. the company still made money and these guys retired with a full pension at relatively young ages.

the company makes money today, my pension is dimes on the dollar and i don't give a flying f#ck that you're upset that i feel entitled to a specialized shift.

the problem with laa is enovy and x-amount of part-timers.

the part-timers receive the same benefits - with the ridiculous CS policy, aa is a burden to them. they have no problem flying or using the insurance for family, but they can't wait NOT to be at work. coming to work is a burden, a hassle, an annoyance. when they are at work, they have no affinity for the company and go through the motions.

the company and union should prioritize and incentivize FT work. they don't and they get game players.

i started PT and they told me that the original PTers only worked weekends to increase the quality of work life for FTers.

today, 35 year FTers work extra hours for 5 year PTers on a tuesday because the 5 year PTer has sat & sun off.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Okay how about the fact that you have a contract company putting bags on the jetway shoot and the iam gets them themselves.System wide the contract company costs millions. That is coming out of our pockets

when i had the specialized 'oversize' shift...there were days in the busy summer when i was moving 25-30 aa bags, sometimes more bags..from other airlines' piers and various areas of the intl. bagroom - besides working oversize, running bags to baggage service and aa to alaska bags, scanning trips and managing equipment (electric tractors). i also expedited tag-off bags and managed to save some bags there.

saving 30 bags a day at $45 a burned bag, i'd say i was a net positive for the company as i was/am earning $250 a day.

30 x $45 = ????

the answer is more envoy?? many of the bags were envoy, who couldn't be bothered to look for their bags.

 

[Buck]

Oh i thought they werr hiring a huge amount of people in tuls the likes you haven't seen in years sorry my mistake

about 600 new mechanics and their support.

 

[Buck]

2 Months and they are STILL negotiating the written language. The AIP is just a verbal NOT in writing as it is NOT written yet or even agreed upon about the written language as of yet. This is just freaking pathetic. There is something else going on here. Could it be a delay once again to get deeper into the C-19 issue to allow the co. to "pull back" their offer? IDK, BUT, I also would NOT put it past them--both sides--the co. and the asso...

The something, going on is the protection of the IAMPF and not those who are in it...

 

[Bos52]

ok, did you come down off your cross yet?

the reward is working alone. not, sleeping or watching tv.

you are mr republican around here, yet, now you sound like elizabeth warren telling the guy in iowa that no one cares he paid his student loan debt and that today's students will go to school for free.

when i started, there were plenty more 'specialized' shifts that guys hired in the 50s/60s/70s had. the company still made money and these guys retired with a full pension at relatively young ages.

the company makes money today, my pension is dimes on the dollar and i don't give a flying f#ck that you're upset that i feel entitled to a specialized shift.

the problem with laa is enovy and x-amount of part-timers.

the part-timers receive the same benefits - with the ridiculous CS policy, aa is a burden to them. they have no problem flying or using the insurance for family, but they can't wait NOT to be at work. coming to work is a burden, a hassle, an annoyance. when they are at work, they have no affinity for the company and go through the motions.

the company and union should prioritize and incentivize FT work. they don't and they get game players.

i started PT and they told me that the original PTers only worked weekends to increase the quality of work life for FTers.

today, 35 year FTers work extra hours for 5 year PTers on a tuesday because the 5 year PTer has sat & sun off.

Why would union(twu) want to incentivize FT work . TWU dues are based on hourly wage not hours worked . Hence , PT workers pay the same dues as FT. Yes part time workers pay the exact same amount in dues as full time workers regardless of amount of hours worked The union doubles their money when the company hires 10 part-timers instead of 5 full timers. If anything the union is incentivized to promote part time work. Not too mention that part time workers are actually members of the union.

 

[1986Mekanic]

Who managers?

Because on the UNION side ambition. work ethic, productivity, skill, none of that matters. It is all secondary to your seniority date. In fact many of those that have seniority think they are entitled to come to work and either do very little or absolutely nothing.


Case in point.

I mean really, why should seniority be "rewarded". Do you think you are entitled to a reward just because you have time on the clock? You think the company should give you special deals?

Your "reward" is you are topped out in pay and have more vacation. You get to bid better jobs, better shifts, better days off, and better vacation picks. Not to mention the job protection you get from all the people below you acting as layoff fodder. Seriously.... a reward for your seniority, Jesus Christ...... typical UNION entitlement.

People like you are why I got out of the industry.

I hope you never have to get a job in the "real" world because it is going to be a total shock for you.

"Reward", give me a f'ing break...........

Well, he doesn't like the seniority based system because he has none and never did have any.

He's a management guy and that system works best for him. Isn't a management based system, rewards are based on performance?

Having seniority doesn't mean we are bad people or lazy, some work a lot, others kick back or have less physically demanding jobs, I know a lot of guys with lots of time out there on the floor busting their arses, they could do less demanding things but choose not to. THATS one of the benefits of a seniority based system. The guy with 2 months seniority doesn't get to pick the cherry job, (or at least what my choice of a cherry job is) he gets whats left over. Thats that...

BTW, I know that when I first started decades ago, I got handed all the shite jobs. So what, I was getting paid to do them, I knew how to and I was working aircraft maintenance for a major. I didn't care. I saw the senior guys and what they were doing and knew that one day I could pick and choose like them if I wanted to.

Some folks never catch on or like that train of thought. Liko lung low is one of them.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Why would union(twu) want to incentivize FT work .

i said the union should incentivize FT.

why? seniority.

as mentioned, when PT started at aa, i was told they were called weekend warriors because they mainly worked weekends to guarantee weekends off to as many FT as possible.

nowadays, 35 year FTers have tuesday/wed off in the am or in preferable work areas, while 8-10 year PTers have sat-sun, sun-mon off in same areas.

those PT work a CS or two and now it's as if they have 37 years seniority. or, they CS off all the time and corrupt shifts that should be FT.

as far as the company you just spelled out the absurdity of aa and PT.

hire 10 PT instead of 5 FT and pay an additional 5 benefit packages (including the dreaded insurance).

 

[swamt]

And the Doom and Gloom pony show continues and gets more active as we move forward. I sure hope you guys will vote this month. The sooner the better. It's only going to get worse before getting better again...

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/m/603c0f2c-52bc-3b83-9487-a9f5b92094cd/coronavirus-has-already-sent.html

 

[Bos52]

i said the union should incentivize FT.

why? seniority.

as mentioned, when PT started at aa, i was told they were called weekend warriors because they mainly worked weekends to guarantee weekends off to as many FT as possible.

nowadays, 35 year FTers have tuesday/wed off in the am or in preferable work areas, while 8-10 year PTers have sat-sun, sun-mon off in same areas.

those PT work a CS or two and now it's as if they have 37 years seniority. or, they CS off all the time and corrupt shifts that should be FT.

as far as the company you just spelled out the absurdity of aa and PT.

hire 10 PT instead of 5 FT and pay an additional 5 benefit packages (including the dreaded insurance).

I don’t know if the company makes out or not but the union’s coffers certainly do. . I agree the company has told us many things over the years. And the union goes right along with it. Do you remember”. Vote for a 16% pay cut to save the pensions”

 

[ALUS78]

Presidential vote is completely different and you know it. And it's not one day. Stop with the misinformation.
Glad you asked about our contract vote %'s. The amount that voted was 96-97% participation. The vote %'s were 96% for 4% against on the last and final offer.
Doesn't matter how many are included, what does matter is the % of participation. Good luck reaching those numbers we had at AA. With only a one day vote, and the intimidation in person vote, you guys will be lucky to have 80% participation.
BTW; what is your point in this question? Or did it just backfire on you?? Wanna keep playing???

Nothing backfired, why so cynical i truly wanted to know the percentage who voted.Id say 80% is overly optimistic. If i have to vote where we normally vote im not sure ill vote unless someone drives me if it was my day off probably not.We usually vote in the back of a little bar in Queens. Well you know how parking is in Queens not to mention 20 minute ride can easily turn into 2 hours

 

[V.O. Reason]

Well here we are midday Friday and still nothing online and nothing about if the final work is done.
We actually had union guys in this week telling us we should see it by today.
Looks like another lie, wonder how they will spin this one.

 

[we're screwed]

Just watched a video from Dale Danker. He said they are missing compensation for maintenance, and profit sharing.(WTF)
He said there was going to be a one day vote on Mar 26 from 6a to 8p with different colored ballots for groups. He also said don't kill the messenger as they didn't have a say in this. Of course he also said he was told it would be done today. (well ****)
Oh yeah, and we can't vote on anything until it's all done.
4 years of "negotiating" got us all here.
I have to add, he sounded pretty frustrated too.

 

[V.O. Reason]

Well another rumor going about is AA is about to announce voluntary furloughs next week, which might effect all of this.
I’m not sure I believe that but if spring bookings are falling then well it might be possible.
I’m so sick of how the media drives these world crisis crap.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

You guys might want to stick around for this because I am about to school these fools.

ok, did you come down off your cross yet?

Not me I'm no martyr.

I am far too cynical for that.

the reward is working alone. not, sleeping or watching tv.

What's wrong? Don't you like your fellow UNION brothers and sisters?

you are mr republican around here, yet, now you sound like elizabeth warren telling the guy in iowa that no one cares he paid his student loan debt and that today's students will go to school for free.

Yes I am a Republican, and it's obvious you are a victim of UNION conditioning. After all one MUST be a Democrat to support UNIONs. Right?

You putting time on the clock is not "paying your dues" it's simply doing your job like every other person working at the airport or maintenance base.

when i started, there were plenty more 'specialized' shifts that guys hired in the 50s/60s/70s had. the company still made money and these guys retired with a full pension at relatively young ages.

Maybe one of these days you will figure out that pensions are a pay as you go system and the people at the end of the line always get screwed. Socialism at it's finest. If you disagree feel free to join the IAM pension fund.

the company makes money today, my pension is dimes on the dollar and i don't give a flying f#ck that you're upset that i feel entitled to a specialized shift.

So you admit you DO feel entitled.

the problem with laa is enovy and x-amount of part-timers.

the part-timers receive the same benefits - with the ridiculous CS policy, aa is a burden to them. they have no problem flying or using the insurance for family, but they can't wait NOT to be at work. coming to work is a burden, a hassle, an annoyance. when they are at work, they have no affinity for the company and go through the motions.

the company and union should prioritize and incentivize FT work. they don't and they get game players.

i started PT and they told me that the original PTers only worked weekends to increase the quality of work life for FTers.

today, 35 year FTers work extra hours for 5 year PTers on a tuesday because the 5 year PTer has sat & sun off.

Cry me a river. You want to put blame on the UNION, the company, the PT'ers. The reason PT CS's is because there exist two conditions. #1 are other part timers looking for hours. #2 are full timers banging out 80 hours a week. I might remind you the 5 year part timer walked into an existing situation, they did not make the situation. If you want to blame someone blame FT who live at work.

If I knew I could CS you are damn right I would put in a transfer to TULE. Thing is I make more money at my current job but life happens and you never know. I would loving nothing more than to have the benefits and another path to income in case I got laid off at my primary job. The UNION gets increased headcount, the company gets more hours at straight time, people who want to pick up hours are able to do so, and people who have other things going on in their life have time for those things. Everybody wins. Well everyone except pissy whiners? You know anyone like that?

Feel free to go stand in front of a mirror and tell yourself how you are "entitled" to stuff.

By the way CS's started as a way to help people who commute control their hours somewhat. Many people still use it that way.



Now for dumb dumb #2

Well, he doesn't like the seniority based system because he has none and never did have any.

He's a management guy and that system works best for him. Isn't a management based system, rewards are based on performance?

I never had high seniority at American Airlines (12 years) however currently, today, right now, I have the longest tenure in my specific department. I don't feel entitled to or demand shifts, days off, vacation picks, or jobs.


I don't agree with your BS entitlement program so therefore I must be a "management guy" That's rich. Well I can tell you where I work you don't have people sleeping, watching TV, and wiring TV's and PlayStations to their toolbox. Where I work you can't be a parasitic drag on your workmates. You pull that crap you simply get fired. So yes I FAR prefer that system.

I remember when I worked for the airport doing overnight cleaning we had a no show and the crew chief tried to have me do my job and his to. I told him I was not going to do it. Of course the rest of the crew tried to apply peer pressure and bullying tactics to get me to comply but I stood my ground. After I was done I noticed our illustrious leader was not around. I decided to find out what he was up to and found him fast asleep in a truck parked by a 757 on the ramp. I decided to just keep that to myself. After all I am not a vindictive person and did not want to jam the guy up so I just forgot what I saw. Anyway he comes up to me later and throws his hissy fit, again I stood my ground. Eventually he went up and did the work himself. The next day he came and apologized to me and stated he had made a mistake and he misunderstood what he was assigning me and that he agreed he was assigning too much to one person. I just said "OK" at his lame apology and went about my day. So he was all too eager to double tag me with 2 peoples work while his lazy ass went and slept in the truck. I guess he felt "entitled".

I don't put up with that BS.

Having seniority doesn't mean we are bad people or lazy, some work a lot, others kick back or have less physically demanding jobs, I know a lot of guys with lots of time out there on the floor busting their arses, they could do less demanding things but choose not to. THATS one of the benefits of a seniority based system. The guy with 2 months seniority doesn't get to pick the cherry job, (or at least what my choice of a cherry job is) he gets whats left over. Thats that...

I never said it did. However there are MANY people who use seniority as a justification to do NOTHING. I saw some truly worthless people in my 12 years at AA. Many times day shift claimed work that was simply not done. Usually on the day the plane goes out, putting afternoons in a position to do our work AND their work to get the plane out on time. We had one lady take overtime hours to help strip a plane, she took off blankets (no pillows) and stated she was done. Apparently she was "entitled" to 4 hours of overtime for removing blankets off the aircraft. She pulled that same routine NUMEROUS times.

BTW, I know that when I first started decades ago, I got handed all the shite jobs. So what, I was getting paid to do them, I knew how to and I was working aircraft maintenance for a major. I didn't care. I saw the senior guys and what they were doing and knew that one day I could pick and choose like them if I wanted to.

You assumed you would get to that point. Sometimes you don't get there. Many people in my shop never got there because they shut the shop down. I don't plan my career on "one day". I am not going to take a screwing for someone else's benefit because "one day".

Basically what you are telling me is you were OK with their entitlement because you knew one day you could be entitled to. Perfect.

There is also the fact you have the least experienced people doing a job not based on the ability to actually do it but because no one else wants it. I mean you have to laugh at the absurdity of it.

Some folks never catch on or like that train of thought. Liko lung low is one of them.

What you mean is I need to "get with the program". 1986Mekanic you are a paragon of the effects of UNION conditioning.

It might surprise you to know not all UNIONs are like that.

 

[1AA]

Just watched a video from Dale Danker. He said they are missing compensation for maintenance, and profit sharing.(WTF)
He said there was going to be a one day vote on Mar 26 from 6a to 8p with different colored ballots for groups. He also said don't kill the messenger as they didn't have a say in this. Of course he also said he was told it would be done today. (well ****)
Oh yeah, and we can't vote on anything until it's all done.
4 years of "negotiating" got us all here.
I have to add, he sounded pretty frustrated too.

So it's safe to say the negotiations are still continuing. The announcement of an AIP was to calm the storm clouds because the APA just went into amendable timeframes and having two union groups in negotiations looks bad for the company. So here we are today. The association and APA are in negotiations. We were lied to again by the association. The company doesn't have to be upfront but our dues are paying for the association to look for our best interests. One day vote coming, T/A not finished, both sides still finishing up negotiations and we have nothing to review or decide on how to vote. How pathetic and troubling this played out to be.