2015 Fleet Service thread

[AANOTOK]

Sounds like he's leaving it for the negotiators 

You are correct, he did not stand and say +3 like he or Isom has so proudly done in the past. And again you are right when you say he did not say no. What he did make clear is they cannot continue to jump above each wage increase, but what he made even more clear when the question was asked about the raise UAL just secured was we will be "inline with" their pay. Read or hear want you want, but to trust this man, you would be a fool.
As for you feel him wanting to leave it to the negotiators, that's a cop out. So now you are ok getting that while giving up much much more?
This is not what he said when he so proudly patted his self on the back when he told all workgroups DAL/UAL plus 7 (now 3) with no strings attached. Now, it's negotiable...

 

[Worldport]

You are correct, he did not stand and say +3 like he or Isom has so proudly done in the past. And again you are right when you say he did not say no. What he did make clear is they cannot continue to jump above each wage increase, but what he made even more clear when the question was asked about the raise UAL just secured was we will be "inline with" their pay. Read or hear want you want, but to trust this man, you would be a fool.
As for you feel him wanting to leave it to the negotiators, that's a cop out. So now you are ok getting that while giving up much much more?
This is not what he said when he so proudly patted his self on the back when he told all workgroups DAL/UAL plus 7 (now 3) with no strings attached. Now, it's negotiable...

You are making it sound like I don't want the UA+3%. I want it just as much as you. That is why I think he's better off just giving us the money so he doesn't have to hear it for the next 5 years even if he has to buy back less stock  or  sell some of those pickup trucks they just bought that really don't fit  our needs.

 

[WeAAsles]

I wonder how many more before  he became totally incoherent that would have been funny and got a thumbs up from me. Weez did you look at the earnings call yet I'm interested in your opinion it's only like 3 minutes.

Haven't caught it. Is it on Jetnet?

 

[Worldport]

Haven't caught it. Is it on Jetnet?

Yes

 

[WeAAsles]

You are correct, he did not stand and say +3 like he or Isom has so proudly done in the past. And again you are right when you say he did not say no. What he did make clear is they cannot continue to jump above each wage increase, but what he made even more clear when the question was asked about the raise UAL just secured was we will be "inline with" their pay. Read or hear want you want, but to trust this man, you would be a fool.
As for you feel him wanting to leave it to the negotiators, that's a cop out. So now you are ok getting that while giving up much much more?
This is not what he said when he so proudly patted his self on the back when he told all workgroups DAL/UAL plus 7 (now 3) with no strings attached. Now, it's negotiable...

I don't want inline with their "pay" if again I'm being shortchanged on the back end.

I want a better back end deal then this 5.5% that's less than everyone else in our industry is currently getting.

And I also see that there's a few bridge medical items floating around out there in other contracts.

 

[Kev3188]

Maybe they should have went out and "shut her down" huh?

They certainly shouldn't have rolled over. More people, more leverage. The IAM had that and the fact that Wall Street loves labor peace in it's corner, and instead they promptly sh*t the bid.

Baseball comparison: Bill Buckner.
 

And there's only one group that is craft killing in our industry and that's you guys at Delta because you haven't got the deal done and Delta can do what they want at whim. That's craft killing to me.

Do you think TA1 or 2 helped change that?
 
 

BTW Kev to point out yet again that contract is now dust in the wind.

Move forward bro, move forward.

Dude...

You know who else used to say that? All the "NoWayers."
 
 

I had to go up and get a coffee but I wanted to get back to this craft killing business. Again the only place that we can see a decimation, a wholesale slaughter for the jobs we do is at Delta Airlines. Delta ramp has no members because they have no union and no contract.

Anderson could come out tomorrow and say that he intends to outsource to a vendor the ENTIRE ramp operation and replace them with $12.00 per hour people. It would take a little while for that to get up and running but in the end there would be nothing those loyal "employees" could do about it.

Now imagine that were to happen and how we who are organized under contract would face arguing against that competition to the AA and UAL numbers pushers.

I'd say having a crappy contract as two individuals on this thread (Who don't work at UAL BTW) like to call it, is BEYOND better than having zip, squat, nadda, nothing.

There's where I see the potential for craft killing.

Point of order: Anderson's retired.

Second point: Settling for a poor quality CBA just to say you have one is a terrible plan.
 
 

Kevin,
 
What is the underlying issue you have with 141?

General incompetence, intellectual laziness, and what seems to be an almost willful disregard for most tenets of unionism.
 
They saw problems and UA was open to fixing them in a limited way and improve the QOL issues and protections kudos to 141 and Oscar.
 

Is it because of your frustration with them basically pulling the plug on the ramp campaign and putting more resources into the DL FA and the B6 ramp drives?
 
Those groups are sending in cards and have support among their peers and the IAM, your group on the ramp are not signing cards and arent even near the 35% that the IAM would like to see so they would put money and effort into the ramp.

Two separate issues, but yes, I do think the IAM's organizing methods are hopelessly outdated.
 
 

Kev is a very level headed guy and independent of me.

Thank you for the kind words.

 

[WeAAsles]

You are making it sound like I don't want the UA+3%. I want it just as much as you. That is why I think he's better off just giving us the money so he doesn't have to hear it for the next 5 years even if he has to buy back less stock  or  sell some of those pickup trucks they just bought that really don't fit  our needs.

I've never heard you claim that you don't want the money either. This "inline" garbage is a cop out.

No way Jose. Not interested Dougie Fresh.

 

[WeAAsles]

They certainly shouldn't have rolled over. More people, more leverage. The IAM had that and the fact that Wall Street loves labor peace in it's corner, and instead they promptly sh*t the bid.Baseball comparison: Bill Buckner. Do you think TA1 or 2 helped change that?  Dude...You know who else used to say that? All the "NoWayers."  Point of order: Anderson's retired.Second point: Settling for a poor quality CBA just to say you have one is a terrible plan.  General incompetence, intellectual laziness, and what seems to be an almost willful disregard for most tenets of unionism. They saw problems and UA was open to fixing them in a limited way and improve the QOL issues and protections kudos to 141 and Oscar. Two separate issues, but yes, I do think the IAM's organizing methods are hopelessly outdated.  Thank you for the kind words.

NOT two separate issues because you were not grandstanding like this when they were supporting your cause. If it's true and I'm beyond sorry, truly beyond sorry to say this. If even when they were putting in money and resources if the ground troops can't even get up to 35% then what is the point of continuing on?

Strong advertising still doesn't always get people to sign up for the service Kev.

Beyond sorry again to say this Kev but you come across as angry at that District because they have abandoned you guys. It's like your an emotional jilted ex lover intent on getting even because the girl moved on?

 

[Worldport]

I've never heard you claim that you don't want the money either. This "inline" garbage is a cop out.

No way Jose. Not interested Dougie Fresh.

I won't  be annoyed until  I see "inline" in the T/A and not the +3%. They will probably use the +3% in negotiations for some type of concession like everyone has been saying all along

 

[Kev3188]

Supporting our cause? 141? You mean like when they wouldn't do visibility with us during the last election? When all we got was hollow slogans like "141 stands with you" from cats like Dave Lehive?

You guys keep conflating my contempt for 141's leadership with the IAMAW in general. Stop doing that.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I don't want inline with their "pay" if again I'm being shortchanged on the back end.
I want a better back end deal then this 5.5% that's less than everyone else in our industry is currently getting.
And I also see that there's a few bridge medical items floating around out there in other contracts.

your 5.5% is a disaster just like my iampf benefit.

My company puts in a max of $2,400 in my returement. At non union delta, those employees get a max of $4,750 + any ot hours.
For whatever reason us iam peeps have the worst retirement company contribution in the industry even though we have had 2 post bankruptcy contracts and still nothing.

regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

Supporting our cause? 141? You mean like when they wouldn't do visibility with us during the last election? When all we got was hollow slogans like "141 stands with you" from cats like Dave Lehive?You guys keep conflating my contempt for 141's leadership with the IAMAW in general. Stop doing that.

the iam organizing is a disaster. I gave them and taught them the core principles of organizing but they havent won any organizing drives other than the ones i laid the foundation in and frame out for them. Since then they have reverted back to arrogant errors and are lost puppies. Jetblue should go with anyone other than the iam. And definately, nobody should go with the iampf or dl141.

regards,

 

[Worldport]

your 5.5% is a disaster just like my iampf benefit.

My company puts in a max of $2,400 in my returement. At non union delta, those employees get a max of $4,750 + any ot hours.
For whatever reason us iam peeps have the worst retirement company contribution in the industry even though we have had 2 post bankruptcy contracts and still nothing.

regards,

Tim does the company contribute to the IAMPF the same amount per hour for a day 1 employee as it does a 12 year man.  With CWA 5.5% of someone making $10 is different than someone making $30

 

[WeAAsles]

Supporting our cause? 141? You mean like when they wouldn't do visibility with us during the last election? When all we got was hollow slogans like "141 stands with you" from cats like Dave Lehive?You guys keep conflating my contempt for 141's leadership with the IAMAW in general. Stop doing that.

Kev where does the money or resources come from to support your cause? Who makes the recommendation that those resources are a good investment and have potential? You said if you went in that you would be in 142. Uh uh, I don't think so. You would be in 141.

I know that you don't hate the IAMAW as a total entity. But do you really think any Lodge is going to continue on with you if the wheels aren't moving? Your guys have to prove they want it. Not the other way around.

I just told 700. I wish I could fly in and grab you and bring you in with us. I can't even begin to imagine your frustration having had it and lost it. But none of us can come and get you and all the other extremely hard working "Union Brothers and Sisters" that we know are stuck in that damn Cult-ture.

 

[Kev3188]

the iam organizing is a disaster. I gave them and taught them the core principles of organizing but they havent won any organizing drives other than the ones i laid the foundation in and frame out for them. Since then they have reverted back to arrogant errors and are lost puppies. Jetblue should go with anyone other than the iam. And definately, nobody should go with the iampf or dl141.

regards,

Yep, the arrogant "we got this" mindset has taken down more than one campaign...

FWIW, we've been told we'd be in 142, but still...

As for the IAMNPF, if the discussion has to be about deferred compensation, then it really needs to be about larger employer contributions and higher matches. That's about as close as you can get to putting more money in someone's pocket without actually increasing their base rate.

My IAMNPF multiplier is something on the order of $38/mo.