2015 Fleet Service thread

[robbedagain]

Almost 70k in BASE wages for the job we do and you want to sell it as horrible?

Dude can I get some of what you're smoking? Actually I'd rather you stay away from me with it. Your brain is fried.
 
Id like to hear T5 opin on their new TA    It sounds good but the devil is in the details    Hopefully its not as bad     I also would believe if theirs passes  it can only help us get a better and enhanced agreement    It does not sound horrible but to some people it is....

 

[Black Magic]

Almost 70k in BASE wages for the job we do and you want to sell it as horrible?

Dude can I get some of what you're smoking? Actually I'd rather you stay away from me with it. Your brain is fried.

 
Yes I know..the lemmings like you will come out in droves to vote yes, the company is banking on it.  Only then for employees to complain a few years later how the company is rolling in profits and not gettting a slice of the pie.  Oh well you got your contract!
 
A smarter business move would be to have a industry "true up" included in the contract after 2 years if market rate has gotten higher.
 
That's ok though, go get your carrot.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
Yes I know..the lemmings like you will come out in droves to vote yes, the company is banking on it.  Only then for employees to complain a few years later how the company is rolling in profits and not gettting a slice of the pie.  Oh well you got your contract!
 
A smarter business move would be to have a industry "true up" included in the contract after 2 years if market rate has gotten higher.
 
That's ok though, go get your carrot.

You know I remember a long time ago telling you that I don't give a damn what Delta has and it's something you never can seem to wrap around that thick skull of yours. Your "Market Rate" means Delta. I don't care if after I sign my "Employment Contract"  Old Man Anderson decides to raise the ramp wage there to $128.64. I don't care.

And if AA makes 80 Billion in Profit in a few years from now all I'm going to say is "Thank you for the 5% Profit Sharing check" It'll be MORE than good enough for me Bub.

 

[WeAAsles]

Almost 70k in BASE wages for the job we do and you want to sell it as horrible?
Dude can I get some of what you're smoking? Actually I'd rather you stay away from me with it. Your brain is fried.
 
Id like to hear T5 opin on their new TA    It sounds good but the devil is in the details    Hopefully its not as bad     I also would believe if theirs passes  it can only help us get a better and enhanced agreement    It does not sound horrible but to some people it is....

I'm very interested in what T5 has to say. The most important thing I see in their TA is the salvaging of Stations and jobs. None of the other stuff matters much if you don't have a place to work. 30 Stations permanently protected and 16 more for now at least given a reprieve until 2024 is fantastic. I'm sure there are pieces to it that might not be completely palatable but overall keeping my employment I could work with the rest.

It does immediately effect us with knowing that we will probably leapfrog that $29.87 rate by at least 3%. But the bigger one is now if they pass it, there is less emphasis on our company to feel the need to want to match the station staffing for competitive financial arguments. I would think talks in that area could now conclude faster? That was an area where I thought the two sides might get bogged down on?

Of course they need to pass it though and the not quite as bright people who are already angry at losing their longevity pay for the $4.00 bump are out there (Yes I'm serious, already read that from someone)

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm not sure though what the thinking is for having the vote in 10 days? Either there are some hidden dangers in there that they don't want the members to digest or in the opposite column they don't want the members to over analyze and maybe shoot themselves in the foot again?

 

[T5towbar]

Yep the United tentative agreement has a signing bonus and LONG 5 years + agreement.  Another hook line and sinker contract from the union boneheads/company!  $33 an hour is not a lot of $$ in year 2021 which it proposes.  Oh well, history has proven that rampers will vote yes on anything.
 
This is best news for Delta fleet service as they will have an immediate raise to trump this scale sometime this year.

 DL can give more. And can take it all away as well.  
 
 

 
Yes I know..the lemmings like you will come out in droves to vote yes, the company is banking on it.  Only then for employees to complain a few years later how the company is rolling in profits and not gettting a slice of the pie.  Oh well you got your contract!
 
A smarter business move would be to have a industry "true up" included in the contract after 2 years if market rate has gotten higher.
 
That's ok though, go get your carrot.

We been thru that already.
The membership spoke to District leadership and demanded scope before the money. Which is the right thing to do in this business. We all know that this business is cyclical. 
 
 
Here's my take on all of this:
 
They listened to the members and I am quite surprised by this.  Form all accounts, it seems like a positive step, especially in strengthening the scope for the duration of the contract.  The length of this (5 yrs) was surprising as well.  
 
I wish that we got the Express Work in DEN & IAD (which was very much needed - I will go into that in a bit); but gained it in SFO & LAX. That was a surprise. I think that once UGS is up and running, and if the vendors keep screwing up, we can get that work as well, and there will not be any split ops in any hub.  Maybe that was one of the concessions in this deal. 
 
The stations like SAT and IND was put under scope in this deal. These flights handle a lof of mainline, and now that we will have a flight threshold in this deal, that helps those places. And there is opportunity for more work and places like ATL (which will be flying more mainline now) and DTW should be regained. (ATL is just above the wing only). With the new 700's and the 319's coming in, that is more mainline work, which the District has recognized we should get that work. So I am kind of pleased by this.
 
There is also some internal language that was cleared up, like the Shift Con language. Now it will be called Task Completion. Supervisors was using the gray area in this and abusing it. Now they can't anymore. And the back to back Mandatory OT.  Now you will be paid Double Time on the 2nd Mando.  That is a good thing for junior people who were mando back to back on consecutive days.
 
There is an additional step in the pay scale because they didn't want to give the people who just topped out, and the people who are ready to to out (we have a lot of people, especially on the sCO side - IAH & EWR - is in this range - '06 & '07 hires) a 8 to 9 dollar increase in one shot. Now they will have to wait an additional year and half to join the rest of the top outs. But they will be getting a little over 4 bucks an hour more to soften the blow.
 
We lost our Longevity Pay. Its a loss in a way for senior (25 + ) people. 
 
Grievances must be handled in an expedited manner (which was slowwalked by the company), now the company has to handle this so people won't be put into limbo for months while waiting to be heard. If this is handled correctly, this is huge. It would have to be handled in 30 days.
 
There are other improvements to the QOL in this like the Relief Lines (which in our hub, we had Outage Relief & Vacation Relief.)  And with the Vacation Relief, you had to bid a schedule every month and hope for the best. Now some stability will be offered. (this is a hub thing, and Local Management & the LL can agree on the creation of Bid Lines.
 
Medical was not discussed because it will depend on what the other workgroups will be getting. The MX and FA's has to be dealt with, any medical will be what we will wind up getting.  
 
I wish we could have got back some of the stations we lost. And Cargo. But that wasn't going to happen. The UGS footprint is mainly in Tier 3 and the Tier 2 that was gone during the cutting. But there is some opportunity to recapture some more work if and when the mainline aircraft comes in and UAX is drawn down (the 50 seaters like in EWR)  UGS cannot encroach in any protected station.  Like I said again, we needed the DEN and IAD Express work, but maybe that was a concession, but the door was left open.
 
We have until next Friday (the 15) to vote on this. I wish it was electronically (which all future votes should be), but we will probably have to go to our Local Lodge or hotel to vote on this. 
 
I am still going over this, and will talk to some of my union reps to ask more questions. Oscar seems earnest in his effort to get labor on board and have some peace. 
 
I think this will pass.

 

[WeAAsles]

DL can give more. And can take it all away as well.  
 
 

We been thru that already.
The membership spoke to District leadership and demanded scope before the money. Which is the right thing to do in this business. We all know that this business is cyclical. 
 
 
Here's my take on all of this:
 
They listened to the members and I am quite surprised by this.  Form all accounts, it seems like a positive step, especially in strengthening the scope for the duration of the contract.  The length of this (5 yrs) was surprising as well.  
 
I wish that we got the Express Work in DEN & IAD (which was very much needed - I will go into that in a bit); but gained it in SFO & LAX. That was a surprise. I think that once UGS is up and running, and if the vendors keep screwing up, we can get that work as well, and there will not be any split ops in any hub.  Maybe that was one of the concessions in this deal. 
 
The stations like SAT and IND was put under scope in this deal. These flights handle a lof of mainline, and now that we will have a flight threshold in this deal, that helps those places. And there is opportunity for more work and places like ATL (which will be flying more mainline now) and DTW should be regained. (ATL is just above the wing only). With the new 700's and the 319's coming in, that is more mainline work, which the District has recognized we should get that work. So I am kind of pleased by this.
 
There is also some internal language that was cleared up, like the Shift Con language. Now it will be called Task Completion. Supervisors was using the gray area in this and abusing it. Now they can't anymore. And the back to back Mandatory OT.  Now you will be paid Double Time on the 2nd Mando.  That is a good thing for junior people who were mando back to back on consecutive days.
 
There is an additional step in the pay scale because they didn't want to give the people who just topped out, and the people who are ready to to out (we have a lot of people, especially on the sCO side - IAH & EWR - is in this range - '06 & '07 hires) a 8 to 9 dollar increase in one shot. Now they will have to wait an additional year and half to join the rest of the top outs. But they will be getting a little over 4 bucks an hour more to soften the blow.
 
We lost our Longevity Pay. Its a loss in a way for senior (25 + ) people. 
 
Grievances must be handled in an expedited manner (which was slowwalked by the company), now the company has to handle this so people won't be put into limbo for months while waiting to be heard. If this is handled correctly, this is huge. It would have to be handled in 30 days.
 
There are other improvements to the QOL in this like the Relief Lines (which in our hub, we had Outage Relief & Vacation Relief.)  And with the Vacation Relief, you had to bid a schedule every month and hope for the best. Now some stability will be offered. (this is a hub thing, and Local Management & the LL can agree on the creation of Bid Lines.
 
Medical was not discussed because it will depend on what the other workgroups will be getting. The MX and FA's has to be dealt with, any medical will be what we will wind up getting.  
 
I wish we could have got back some of the stations we lost. And Cargo. But that wasn't going to happen. The UGS footprint is mainly in Tier 3 and the Tier 2 that was gone during the cutting. But there is some opportunity to recapture some more work if and when the mainline aircraft comes in and UAX is drawn down (the 50 seaters like in EWR)  UGS cannot encroach in any protected station.  Like I said again, we needed the DEN and IAD Express work, but maybe that was a concession, but the door was left open.
 
We have until next Friday (the 15) to vote on this. I wish it was electronically (which all future votes should be), but we will probably have to go to our Local Lodge or hotel to vote on this. 
 
I am still going over this, and will talk to some of my union reps to ask more questions. Oscar seems earnest in his effort to get labor on board and have some peace. 
 
I think this will pass.

Watch out for Tim Nelson T5. I think he's going to start another effort to try and get you guys to vote no. He admins a FB with lots of Lemmings.

(Lemmings, word of the week)

 

[Worldport]

Watch out for Tim Nelson T5. I think he's going to start another effort to try and get you guys to vote no. He admins a FB with lots of Lemmings.

(Lemmings, word of the week)

The high-lite sheet looks pretty good but its supposed to,if there is no hidden B/S it looks like the new CEO is cool. What are people bitching about how much is the longevity? Weaasles if WE settle in August do you think we will get UA's November rate plus 3%

 

[robbedagain]

thank you T5 for your perspective  All in all it sure sounds like a hell  of a better deal than the original contract you folks have had.    WeAA  I agree with you bro this will have a impact on our negoiations team  and I hope they take notice   The quest is  how big of an impact will it have on our negoiations

 

[WeAAsles]

The high-lite sheet looks pretty good but its supposed to,if there is no hidden B/S it looks like the new CEO is cool. What are people bitching about how much is the longevity? Weaasles if WE settle in August do you think we will get UA's November rate plus 3%

The longevity is .75 max at 30 years. Stupid to even worry about. They're also bitching because they can't understand that the rest of the contract outside of the items negotiated wasn't touched. Some can't figure that out. I tried to help but the second I tried (poof) Nelson knocked me off the page.

Well if they're stupid enough to listen to that guy if he tries to scuttle it, it's on them. They're all supposed to be adults with their own minds.

Your other question? Yes. I think at least.

 

[Worldport]

The longevity is .75 max at 30 years. Stupid to even worry about. They're also bitching because they can't understand that the rest of the contract outside of the items negotiated wasn't touched. Some can't figure that out. I tried to help but the second I tried (poof) Nelson knocked me off the page.

Well if they're stupid enough to listen to that guy if he tries to scuttle it, it's on them. They're all supposed to be adults with their own minds.

Your other question? Yes. I think at least.

No Bookface whats Nelson trying to blow up their A$$e$

 

[WeAAsles]

No Bookface whats Nelson trying to blow up their A$$e$

He's starting with the "Well it looks good, but" line. You know how it works. Make people believe that there's something not quite right and they're being scammed and maybe they should vote it down and they can get better.

I've seen more better deals screwed in my career with that thought line then the improvements people are hoping for. And how many times does that second deal usually take to get into people's hands?

 

[T5towbar]

The high-lite sheet looks pretty good but its supposed to,if there is no hidden B/S it looks like the new CEO is cool. What are people bitching about how much is the longevity? Weaasles if WE settle in August do you think we will get UA's November rate plus 3%

The Longevity Pay was 02. cents per year (Years 11-15);  03. cents (16-25); 04. cents (25-29); and up to .75 cents after 30 YOS.
 
So far, I haven't heard a whole lot of bitching, just questions, (in a positive manner). The main questions are what role (if any) does UGS play in all of this. And some clarification to the stations that took the cuts, so they won't be hit again and replaced by UGS. These questions has to be answered to ease concerns.
And questions about any FT / PT ratios was unanswered. A lot of us been thru that, and it decimated a lot of people. That has to be answered as well. People are kind of concerned because many think that is a entire new contract. This is the same agreement we voted on, but limited issues are the ones that are reopened and changed. People must understand, that is why the District highlighted all of the changes that the company agreed on. So people think that is the glossy and shiny highlights. All I can say is read your contract. (which I know most people don't) The many changes, such as the addition and strengthening of scope is what the Union is highlighting.

 

[Worldport]

The Longevity Pay was 02. cents per year (Years 11-15);  03. cents (16-25); 04. cents (25-29); and up to .75 cents after 30 YOS.
 
So far, I haven't heard a whole lot of bitching, just questions, (in a positive manner). The main questions are what role (if any) does UGS play in all of this. And some clarification to the stations that took the cuts, so they won't be hit again and replaced by UGS. These questions has to be answered to ease concerns.
And questions about any FT / PT ratios was unanswered. A lot of us been thru that, and it decimated a lot of people. That has to be answered as well. People are kind of concerned because many think that is a entire new contract. This is the same agreement we voted on, but limited issues are the ones that are reopened and changed. People must understand, that is why the District highlighted all of the changes that the company agreed on. So people think that is the glossy and shiny highlights. All I can say is read your contract. (which I know most people don't) The many changes, such as the addition and strengthening of scope is what the Union is highlighting.

After being beat down all these years  its hard to believe if something is too good to be true

 

[Worldport]

The Longevity Pay was 02. cents per year (Years 11-15);  03. cents (16-25); 04. cents (25-29); and up to .75 cents after 30 YOS.
 
So far, I haven't heard a whole lot of bitching, just questions, (in a positive manner). The main questions are what role (if any) does UGS play in all of this. And some clarification to the stations that took the cuts, so they won't be hit again and replaced by UGS. These questions has to be answered to ease concerns.
And questions about any FT / PT ratios was unanswered. A lot of us been thru that, and it decimated a lot of people. That has to be answered as well. People are kind of concerned because many think that is a entire new contract. This is the same agreement we voted on, but limited issues are the ones that are reopened and changed. People must understand, that is why the District highlighted all of the changes that the company agreed on. So people think that is the glossy and shiny highlights. All I can say is read your contract. (which I know most people don't) The many changes, such as the addition and strengthening of scope is what the Union is highlighting.

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