2015 Fleet Service thread

[WeAAsles]

https://www.facebook.com/RBReich/videos/1189540404391887/

 

[Rogallo]

So if you got a crappy offer in your mind you would want them to throw in that carrot to make the mules walk?

Sorry man but give me a deal that passes on its own merits without any parlor tricks or payola.

 
You really come up with some good comebacks sometimes!

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Not sure where I even gave the indication Doug represented my interest AT ALL. What I said was, on numerous occasions Doug has stated one thing and done just the opposite. What I also stated was Doug has proven to be untrustworthy and therefore I will vote accordingly.

I guess I just have different expectations from Doug than most. I think in his mind he justifies lying because his actions benefit those he represents. To him negotiations are nothing more than a game he intends to win by any means necessary. I don't expect honor or integrity from him. In business you get what you negotiate, not what you deserve.
 
I suppose what I am ultimately saying is I EXPECT that behavior.
 

Who say's I'm mad? The union hasn't brought anything back for me to vote on, and my hope is like I stated, they do not bring anything back that has anything resembling concessions.

I hope not either. However, you know most likely the T/A is going to ask for concessions for catering and cargo.
 

By the way, what is your agenda??

I have flat out stated what my agenda is on at least three occasions. If you really read my post over time, instead of reacting to them, it is pretty obvious what my agenda is.
 

I and many here do not need a former employee's help. Congrats on getting out, but don't lecture me on my present and your past job...you are not qualified to do such.

I worked "your job" for over a decade. How long do I have to work that job and under a TWU contract to be "qualified"?
 
Is the fact I no longer work there what makes me unqualified. What if I get recall or transfer..... does that make me suddenly qualified?
 
You know my wife still works under a TWU contract. Believe me, I have an interest in you getting the best contract possible.
 

If  union bashing is your agenda, head on over to the AMT thread and throw your bait out there, I'm sure you will get a bite or two.

Again I made my agenda very clear and bashing UNIONS is absolutely not my agenda.
 
I have seen the benefits of UNIONism in my small home town. Two factories in the same industry, the UNION job paid almost twice the starting wage, had superior benefits, and a pension.  They did not tolerate wholesale loss of pay and benefits, nor did they have senior employees with a sense of "entitlement" slamming dominoes or watching TV 6 hours a day in the break room.
 
Let me ask you this. Do you feel the TWU has represented the membership to the best of their ability?
 

Better yet, PM 700 and you two have a knock down drag out privately. 

I rather converse with people I actually respect.

 

[WeAAsles]

So I'm hearing we may get some news on Fleets "Limited issue" UAL negotiations tomorrow?

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Ya, the IAM realized they gave away a boatload of dues paying members and are scrambling to try and get them back in the fold in this rapidly sunsetting time of milk and honey for airline workers.

 

[WeAAsles]

Ya, the IAM realized they gave away a boatload of dues paying members and are scrambling to try and get them back in the fold in this rapidly sunsetting time of milk and honey for airline workers.

The Continental side of that merger had no Union for 30 years before they scrambled to get one to try and protect themselves. That means they had no protection language for any type of Station Staffing to begin with that they brought in with them. The IBT couldn't get that language for them and of course the IAM wouldn't have been able to get it either.

Doesn't matter what Union they would have gotten because none of them would have been able to hold a gun to the company's head to force language up their arse.

Choosing to stay unrepresented for so many years and hoping Big Daddy CEO would always be there to stroke them put themselves in their own predicament.

Lesson learned the hard way. The real enemy stares at them back through that mirror.

 

[T5towbar]

The Continental side of that merger had no Union for 30 years before they scrambled to get one to try and protect themselves. That means they had no protection language for any type of Station Staffing to begin with that they brought in with them. The IBT couldn't get that language for them and of course the IAM wouldn't have been able to get it either.

Doesn't matter what Union they would have gotten because none of them would have been able to hold a gun to the company's head to force language up their arse.

Choosing to stay unrepresented for so many years and hoping Big Daddy CEO would always be there to stroke them put themselves in their own predicament.

Lesson learned the hard way. The real enemy stares at them back through that mirror.

Incorrect on your first point.
 
As I keep saying, we did had station AND cargo protection going into the merger.  People quite forget that the good ol' IAM gave up our cargo on a side letter of agreement. (I saw the LOA myself)
The IAM got outsmarted at the table and then colluded with the company to get TA2 passed. People took the bait and paid the price. 
But enough about past history........
 
News has it that there will be some sort of an agreement. Rumors are floating around about an announcement. I am wondering how they are going to sell this one?
The IAM is trying to serve TWO interests by trying to get UGS under their umbrella while not trying to sell out the present membership.  
They want all of those potential UGS "members" and I feel that this isn't right at this time. Negotiate that item seperately, since these are NOT UA IAM MEMBERS!!!    IMHO, it is distracting to the people on property who lived and survived all of this.
 
The problem is trying to sell it to the members without ANY form of SCOPE.  UGS should NOT encroach into any of the present Tier 2 stations or any hub, IMHO. WE should get back the work that was lost in stations that will be flying mainline, since UAX will be mainly a 70 seat airline (most of the 50 seaters will be gone - the goal by 2017 - depending on the price of oil too - but some Dashes will remain and maybe a few ERJ's), and more mainline is coming into the fleet. (the latest Boeing order of 700's and the used Airbus 319's) They will be drawing UAX down in a lot of cities and adding more mainline which should be good for us. The stations like IND and SAT; etc. got restored, and should be put under permanent scope like the rest of the Tier 2's. This should be a given. The cuts hampered operations so much even in the hubs that we had to hire off the street because the furloughees wouldn't come back. Oscar recognized this, and a lot of investments are being done operationally.
 
I'd like to know how are they going to sell this one to a membership who is pissed off? There is no 1-800-RETRO this time.  No divided sCO vs sUA. People are wanting and demanding SCOPE. Hey Klemm, haven't you listened to EVERY SURVEY ABOUT SCOPE???   31.00 for three years and having a date in 2020 when UGS will be taking over jobs at a lower rate.  Win for IAM.  Win for Company.  Loss for UA members. 32.00???   33.00????  for 3 YEARS and no job afterwards?   Just give out a better buyout (100K) if you want that much attrition.
 
Here's my scenario of how they will try to sell this one:
They will do a GM/DL type move where the present membership will remain on the same pay/benefit schedule. Any new hires will be on a lower scale. Possibly a UGS scale (depending on location)  No one on property after DOS will be touched for the remainder of the contract.. Probably 31.00 top out.  And they will throw out a large singing bonus with a 1-800-BONUS hotline so you can see how much money you would get in a signing bonus (this is funny......)  All of Tier 3 will be UGS and any other station that is Tier 2 will transition to UGS once any employee retire.  But they won't mention scope or any expansion or strengthening of it. They will use tactics to distract from this by saying that no one will be hurt for the duration of the contract. They will also throw out "protection dates" to distract as well.  The IAM will also say that we need these UGS members represented so that will help us in any future negotiations.  Medical will be the "wild card" in all of this though.  
 
My opinion: This will not pass without scope. No matter the dollar amount. Too many members have and are still paying the price.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm curious about something T5? If the nuclear option were to happen tomorrow and all you had left were those 7 hubs, how many jobs is that?

Directly after the merger how many total workers were there between the two groups?

I have a bit of a different philosophy on the lower waged UGS group being organized and able to negotiate for higher wages. But better to discuss that after you see what maybe comes out tomorrow?

Too much speculation going on right now and it can create a lot of emotional turmoil without knowing the true details.

 

[WeAAsles]

Paying close attention to what happens with you guys of course because Parker did say Delta (Or United) whichever is higher plus 3%

 

[Worldport]

I'm curious about something T5? If the nuclear option were to happen tomorrow and all you had left were those 7 hubs, how many jobs is that?

Directly after the merger how many total workers were there between the two groups?

I have a bit of a different philosophy on the lower waged UGS group being organized and able to negotiate for higher wages. But better to discuss that after you see what maybe comes out tomorrow?

Too much speculation going on right now and it can create a lot of emotional turmoil without knowing the true details.

Weaasles you don't find it a conflict of interest union representing both? That is one of my pet peeves. Actually nothing gets me more pissed

 

[WeAAsles]

Weaasles you don't find it a conflict of interest union representing both? That is one of my pet peeves. Actually nothing gets me more pissed

There situation is a little different then our old AE situation. We don't control what type of aircraft the company wants to use whether it's a mainline or commuter jet.

Plus if they're organized maybe they can eventually price themselves out of being worth keeping it not brought back inhouse?

We also do need feeders or WE don't have as much work and along with that, jobs.

 

[WeAAsles]

Worldport if those pernicious ground handling operations can keep their workers mired at minimum wage and barely benefited how are we ever going to compete against that. That the company isn't going to want to work with those outfits?

Shoddy service or not.

 

[Worldport]

Worldport if those pernicious ground handling operations can keep their workers mired at minimum wage and barely benefited how are we ever going to compete against that. That the company isn't going to want to work with those outfits?

Shoddy service or not.

Unfortunately  the only way to compete would be with ready reserve I am of the feeling the union wants dues doesn't matter if its from AA employee or contract company. union might not give its all if its getting the dues anyway. Again I've seen it done. UA deal was a bad one period and the union was selling it. I know ultimately its up to the members to vote on but the union was selling it. So now what do you do ,who is the enemy?

 

[WeAAsles]

Unfortunately  the only way to compete would be with ready reserve I am of the feeling the union wants dues doesn't matter if its from AA employee or contract company. union might not give its all if its getting the dues anyway. Again I've seen it done. UA deal was a bad one period and the union was selling it. I know ultimately its up to the members to vote on but the union was selling it. So now what do you do ,who is the enemy?

The dues argument doesn't hold water. Especially in our Union. Two times the hourly rate. Why would they want more $15.00 per hour people over what we make now and what we're going to be making.

And if it was only about the dues with us. A long time ago they could have dumped our medical and anything else except the minimum language needed for us to keep our jobs and maybe we could be looking at $50.00 per hour and the Union could get two times that per month?

We pay in a lot more to those Union coffers than any offshoot groups do if they represent them.

 

[Worldport]

The dues argument doesn't hold water. Especially in our Union. Two times the hourly rate. Why would they want more $15.00 per hour people over what we make now and what we're going to be making.

And if it was only about the dues with us. A long time ago they could have dumped our medical and anything else except the minimum language needed for us to keep our jobs and maybe we could be looking at $50.00 per hour and the Union could get two times that per month?

We pay in a lot more to those Union coffers than any offshoot groups do if they represent them.

I was talking in general, all unions have different way of calculating dues. Man I'm asking for it but haven't  we taken over a lot of AMT jobs ?We pay less  dues then them