The senior people I know and am friends with use this as a get away. A chance to get out of the house for a while hanging out with friends and sharing a meal on the road. They work a few Europe trips a month. There is a smaller number who are struggling to get by, or just trying to hoard money working 100 hours a month.
2009 Flight Attendant Attrition
- Thread starter jimntx
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I think we have you beat, Aircraft Mechanic Al Blackman has a 1942 seniority date. He was here when those sweet silver haired ladies were born. I wouldnt say that work is all they have , just something they still enjoy.
I agree that they do enjoy it Bob, and that is all good. But...I see so many that don't have spouses, significant others, children, grandchildren, etc., that would have given them something besides this job. The people at AA are their family, and that is great...but if you hear their stories, some/many are very sad.
Example of a not so sad one...
(A flight attendant from Memphis who was asked out on a date by a county fair singer. She did not go out with him because he was from the wrong side of town...his name was Elvis Presley! In the long run, probably a correct decision but wow!)
jimntx
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Oh. So, it's ok to furlough junior f/as so that on those rare occasions when they decide they need to go to Paris and spend $600 for a pair of shoes, they can? Is it the junior f/a's fault that they don't and didn't have the sense god gave a billy goat and save some money for retirement and find something to do with themselves other than fly a few trips a year?
Let me hear again from all of you that think this is "maintaining the flexibility of the job" about what good union members you are. Tell me again how you think that some members should be sacrificed for the selfish desires of a few stupid old f/as.
Let me hear again from all of you that think this is "maintaining the flexibility of the job" about what good union members you are. Tell me again how you think that some members should be sacrificed for the selfish desires of a few stupid old f/as.
Jim mentioned "junior" F/A's not "new hires". We haven't hired any "new hires" since 2001. Please get your facts straight.
jimntx
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I can't think of anything more ridiculous than having nothing but your job to do. It shows a real lack of mental acuity. And, when you are way past retirement age, it's particularly sad. Besides, a lot of them are safety issues. I can't believe the FAA lets the company get away with "certifying" their drills. Some of them can barely walk.
And, I'm 64 so don't think for a second that it's a young person being unkind to the elderly. I'm gone from here as soon as I qualify for full Social Security in 18 months or (if I can stand it) in 2 years, 3 months when I qualify for retiree travel benefits. I love the job and I'm good at it, but I've had just about all of AMR corporation that I can stand for one lifetime. I also don't intend to be one of those that uses the cart as my walker during the service.
The reality is that I'm probably gone before next summer. If AA does not have a good Christmas travel period, it is pretty much guaranteed that there will be another furlough in the spring. I think we are seeing the first fruits of John Ward giving up furlough pay in 2003--i.e., seasonal furloughs. As long as the number being gotten rid of at one time is less than 250 f/as based in New York or Chicago and the total number at any one time is less than 500, the Federal and state WARN acts do not get activated. (Think back to the furloughs last spring. The total number Subject to Furlough was 410. Of those, I'm sure it was not coincidence that the number being furloughed from LGA was 249.) The company only has to give the APFA 30 days' notice. IIRC, under the Federal and state WARN laws, the number being furloughed is not cumulative; so, if they furlough 499 this month and 499 next month, they haven't exceeded the trigger.
And, if they declare an "emergency" they don't have to even give that much. "Grounding of a substantial number of the Company's aircraft" or "any strike or picketing causing a temporary cessation of work" are two of the events defined in the contract as emergencies. Note the Blessed Order of the Perpetually Trip-Removed, our union that is better than any union that ever existed, left it up to the company to define what number of a/c is "substantial" and the length of a "temporary" cessation of work.
Think ahead to APFA's planned picketing events. All the company has to do is instruct non-union employees not to cross the picket lines and bingo, we have a temporary cessation of work.
And, I'm 64 so don't think for a second that it's a young person being unkind to the elderly. I'm gone from here as soon as I qualify for full Social Security in 18 months or (if I can stand it) in 2 years, 3 months when I qualify for retiree travel benefits. I love the job and I'm good at it, but I've had just about all of AMR corporation that I can stand for one lifetime. I also don't intend to be one of those that uses the cart as my walker during the service.
The reality is that I'm probably gone before next summer. If AA does not have a good Christmas travel period, it is pretty much guaranteed that there will be another furlough in the spring. I think we are seeing the first fruits of John Ward giving up furlough pay in 2003--i.e., seasonal furloughs. As long as the number being gotten rid of at one time is less than 250 f/as based in New York or Chicago and the total number at any one time is less than 500, the Federal and state WARN acts do not get activated. (Think back to the furloughs last spring. The total number Subject to Furlough was 410. Of those, I'm sure it was not coincidence that the number being furloughed from LGA was 249.) The company only has to give the APFA 30 days' notice. IIRC, under the Federal and state WARN laws, the number being furloughed is not cumulative; so, if they furlough 499 this month and 499 next month, they haven't exceeded the trigger.
And, if they declare an "emergency" they don't have to even give that much. "Grounding of a substantial number of the Company's aircraft" or "any strike or picketing causing a temporary cessation of work" are two of the events defined in the contract as emergencies. Note the Blessed Order of the Perpetually Trip-Removed, our union that is better than any union that ever existed, left it up to the company to define what number of a/c is "substantial" and the length of a "temporary" cessation of work.
Think ahead to APFA's planned picketing events. All the company has to do is instruct non-union employees not to cross the picket lines and bingo, we have a temporary cessation of work.
I never thought I'd see the day...
Jim is absolutely correct in his assertions. We have left ourselves open for seasonal furloughs and that is exactly what is happening. The company will find ways around every federal rule and they will use them for their full advantage. We set ourselves up for this, now we are stuck with it. Remember, once you give up something, you will NEVER get it back.
Jim is absolutely correct in his assertions. We have left ourselves open for seasonal furloughs and that is exactly what is happening. The company will find ways around every federal rule and they will use them for their full advantage. We set ourselves up for this, now we are stuck with it. Remember, once you give up something, you will NEVER get it back.
jimntx
Veteran
Ah, but we have preserved the flexibility of the job--well, for those who get to keep their jobs. And senior f/as never have to come to work unless they want to. After all, a union should never be about preserving jobs. It should always be about preserving trivial perks.
AANOTOK
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"I can't think of anything more ridiculous than having nothing but your job to do. It shows a real lack of mental acuity. And, when you are way past retirement age, it's particularly sad"
Jim, give me a break. Get off your high horse and let folks decide when they want to leave. For you to use such a broad brush in painting everyone as having a "real lack of mental acuity" is total nonsense . I have 30 years with the company and although it's not what it use to be, I still enjoy doing my job. I still like coming to work and visiting with friends I have come to know over the years.
So you and your 64 years have no right to tell me when to retire. If you want to leave, that's your decision. Not mine, not the companies and not the juniors. Hopefully when I do decide to go, the young lady or gentleman will be able to put in as many years as they so desire without having someone of your ilk telling them to move along for the benefit of the less senior folk.
Jim, give me a break. Get off your high horse and let folks decide when they want to leave. For you to use such a broad brush in painting everyone as having a "real lack of mental acuity" is total nonsense . I have 30 years with the company and although it's not what it use to be, I still enjoy doing my job. I still like coming to work and visiting with friends I have come to know over the years.
So you and your 64 years have no right to tell me when to retire. If you want to leave, that's your decision. Not mine, not the companies and not the juniors. Hopefully when I do decide to go, the young lady or gentleman will be able to put in as many years as they so desire without having someone of your ilk telling them to move along for the benefit of the less senior folk.
jimntx
Veteran
I love it when a senior f/a takes a general statement I made and then accuses me of making the statement about them specifically. Did my generality hit a little too close to home? 
Show me where I said YOU had to retire. I've never even seen you on this board. For your information, one of the senior f/as I most admired was Ms. Avriette who was the #1 for many years after Juanita and Dovey retired. She started flying for AA when I was in the 2nd grade. The difference between Ms. Avriette and the people I'm talking about is that Ms. Avriette flew her line and when she was on the plane, she worked.
If you still enjoy the job AND you come to work on a regular basis, good for you. I wish you as many years as you want to devote to the job. If you are one of those dilletantes who only fly when you think you need a new pair of shoes from Paris or a break from your spouse, remember your selfishness is keeping some from working who wants and needs the job. Remember that every month when you bid one of the best lines and then drop all your trips or sell them to a trip trade service.
You posted on another thread that the value to a union to you is to prevent the company from shoving out older workers in favor of younger workers. But, you don't seem to have any problem with that older worker just taking up space on a seniority list to the detriment of the younger worker. Isn't that just a little hypocritical?
Show me where I said YOU had to retire. I've never even seen you on this board. For your information, one of the senior f/as I most admired was Ms. Avriette who was the #1 for many years after Juanita and Dovey retired. She started flying for AA when I was in the 2nd grade. The difference between Ms. Avriette and the people I'm talking about is that Ms. Avriette flew her line and when she was on the plane, she worked.
If you still enjoy the job AND you come to work on a regular basis, good for you. I wish you as many years as you want to devote to the job. If you are one of those dilletantes who only fly when you think you need a new pair of shoes from Paris or a break from your spouse, remember your selfishness is keeping some from working who wants and needs the job. Remember that every month when you bid one of the best lines and then drop all your trips or sell them to a trip trade service.
You posted on another thread that the value to a union to you is to prevent the company from shoving out older workers in favor of younger workers. But, you don't seem to have any problem with that older worker just taking up space on a seniority list to the detriment of the younger worker. Isn't that just a little hypocritical?
AANOTOK
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Jim, as you continue to use the brush, how do you know I do not need the money. In not trying to be harsh, I will work and continue to save for my family, their family etc...etc...etc...The juniors, whom I have many friends, will do as I have done, work, withstand layoffs, except layoffs and move on etc... etc.. etc...My family and I are first and foremost my top priority.
As for being hypocritical, I stated it was unfair for someone with seniority to be displaced because of youth or the almighty buck.
My argument here is I have seniority and will exercise it until I feel I no longer choose to do so. Sooo... I think you are confused about the H word. Your spin on that is simply amazing!!
And Jim, in closing, no, it did not hit close to home. I have never flew to Paris for shoes, maybe Las Vegas for a Rodeo (I guess that makes me a dilletante), but not Paris for shoes. But, if I choose to do so, I've earned it.
Go ahead with your rebuttal Jim as that will be the last from me. I'm not one to continue to argue back and forth on blogs. Fire away....
As for being hypocritical, I stated it was unfair for someone with seniority to be displaced because of youth or the almighty buck.
My argument here is I have seniority and will exercise it until I feel I no longer choose to do so. Sooo... I think you are confused about the H word. Your spin on that is simply amazing!!
And Jim, in closing, no, it did not hit close to home. I have never flew to Paris for shoes, maybe Las Vegas for a Rodeo (I guess that makes me a dilletante), but not Paris for shoes. But, if I choose to do so, I've earned it.
Go ahead with your rebuttal Jim as that will be the last from me. I'm not one to continue to argue back and forth on blogs. Fire away....
goodgirl37
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I am sorry, but if you were hired prior to 1999 than you havent had to suffer anything even remotely close to what most people have that are junior, sell it to someone that will but it! That card isnt going to work much longer, b/c now the "junior" of the junior have 10+ years of seniority, and the lazy motto of, "I did my time" should be a thing of the past. Its like saying being raised today is the same as being raised 40 years ago.. give me a break.
AANOTOK
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You're right goodgirl, I apologize for being hired before 1999.
I apologize for getting laid off in the past.
I apologize for putting in 30 plus years of work.
I apologize for you and anyone you care for getting into this as a career.
Now that I have apologized, can we please move on.
Thanks
I apologize for getting laid off in the past.
I apologize for putting in 30 plus years of work.
I apologize for you and anyone you care for getting into this as a career.
Now that I have apologized, can we please move on.
Thanks
Ok. I believe in the seniority system and maintaining the flexibility of the job at all costs. Flexibility is the biggest boon of this job. I hope to one day be a senior flight attendant who has the luxury of flying one trip a month and flying to Paris for a pair of shoes. Though, I'd most likely fly to Italy or Spain for my shoes, since Paris isn't really known for it's great shoes. 😛h34r: Maybe that's what makes the FA you're speaking of 'stupid' as well as 'old'? 😛
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