F/A Attrition ONLY

[FA Mikey]

Yes, that is correct. They dropped the S80 qual which as you know makes up most of the fleet. They, of course, dropped their 727, DC10/MD11 and 747 quals when those a/c were retired. That left them with 757/767/777. And, they certainly didn't raise their hands to get qualified on the 737. I'm not sure how they did it, but I was told by an FSM at DFW that there are some of the senior f/as who also were able to get rid of their 757 quals; so, they are only qualified on the 767 and 777.

That's why they bid availability. They get paid 70 hours for not flying. It is extremely rare for a 767 or 777 trip to drop into open time, and I can assure you it won't last until 12 noon which is the earliest that crew scheduling can call an availability f/a.

AA never let anyone drop 757, odds are they were just never qualified, never changed bases or went international. It may sound to some people here glamorous and the perfect situation. Its really not. You basically become someone on reserve. And when the call from scheduling comes in, no matter what it is or does and you are legal it is yours.

I am qualified on everything. For me its a quality of life issue. More choices for days off, days, layovers ETC.

 

[nbmcg01]

AA never let anyone drop 757, odds are they were just never qualified, never changed bases or went international. It may sound to some people here glamorous and the perfect situation. Its really not. You basically become someone on reserve. And when the call from scheduling comes in, no matter what it is or does and you are legal it is yours.

I am qualified on everything. For me its a quality of life issue. More choices for days off, days, layovers ETC.

I have always been surprised that AA has not required everyone to be qualified on all equipment and services. If I can get an "on line" degree from Duke, certainly AA can qualify everyone on-line (with the except of the hands on which would be accomplished @ EPT). Once qualified you would maintain those quals as long as the aircraft remained in the fleet. It was result in better utilization and flexibility for both the f/a and company.

 

[FA Mikey]

I guess just never been a priority for AA. Once you change a base or opt to international, you are forced to get qualified for specific AC at that base. The only other way is a reserve proffer, when we would get a new AC type at a base or in the system.

 

[jimntx]

AA never let anyone drop 757, odds are they were just never qualified, never changed bases or went international. It may sound to some people here glamorous and the perfect situation. Its really not. You basically become someone on reserve. And when the call from scheduling comes in, no matter what it is or does and you are legal it is yours.

I am qualified on everything. For me its a quality of life issue. More choices for days off, days, layovers ETC.

Oh, I agree that technically, you've put yourself on permanent reserve that way, but...

I don't know about MIA, but I watch the open time at DFW (I can dream, can't I?). If a 767 or 777 drops into open time, it never stays there more than 2-3 hours, and it's usually gone in minutes. There are 100's of f/as (me included) who are qualified on the 777, but will never have the seniority to hold a domestic 777 line. If a 777 trip ends up in OT, someone grabs it one way or another. Those trips also tend to be "redder" than other trips so you can usually trade with OT for the trip.

As far as everyone being qualified on everything, I'm not too sure that the APFA doesn't have a hand in the myriad of quals we have today. It prevents the company from combining the International and Domestic f/as corps (assuming they want to) and reducing the number of reserves needed for any given month.

With a combined corps, we would need only one set of reserves each month. We would need more reserves than either monthly domestic or international now, but less than the total of those two. For that matter, the total f/a corps would/could be smaller. Fewer f/as = fewer dues payers.

 

[butchord45]

I have always been surprised that AA has not required everyone to be qualified on all equipment and services. If I can get an "on line" degree from Duke, certainly AA can qualify everyone on-line (with the except of the hands on which would be accomplished @ EPT). Once qualified you would maintain those quals as long as the aircraft remained in the fleet. It was result in better utilization and flexibility for both the f/a and company.

 

[butchord45]

I have always been surprised that AA has not required everyone to be qualified on all equipment and services. If I can get an "on line" degree from Duke, certainly AA can qualify everyone on-line (with the except of the hands on which would be accomplished @ EPT). Once qualified you would maintain those quals as long as the aircraft remained in the fleet. It was result in better utilization and flexibility for both the f/a and company.

The reason is most unions are in teh business of protecting the people who do hot want to work, and not the people who do want to work.

It's not exclusive to APFA most unions work that way.

 

[FA Mikey]

Oh, I agree that technically, you've put yourself on permanent reserve that way, but...

I don't know about MIA, but I watch the open time at DFW (I can dream, can't I?).

Dream away my friend

As far as everyone being qualified on everything, I'm not too sure that the APFA doesn't have a hand in the myriad of quals we have today. It prevents the company from combining the International and Domestic f/as corps (assuming they want to) and reducing the number of reserves needed for any given month.

Other than the fact that a good majority of FA's do not want a mix, APFA would have a hard time trying to keep then seprate if that is what AA really wanted.

With a combined corps, we would need only one set of reserves each month. We would need more reserves than either monthly domestic or international now, but less than the total of those two. For that matter, the total f/a corps would/could be smaller. Fewer f/as = fewer dues payers.

I agree but the fewer number of reserves would be minimal. The reserve pool people would be in a position where they would be required to be qualified on everything. The international reserves who dropped MD80 would have to go to DFW and requal, plus the domestics would have to have 777 and in some bases's the 300.

 

[FA Mikey]

The reason is most unions are in teh business of protecting the people who do hot want to work, and not the people who do want to work.

It's not exclusive to APFA most unions work that way.

Based on what facts? Unions negotiate a CBA that dictates how and in what order a person is called in to work, what they do while they are there, and how they are paid. I have read the APFA / AA CBA and no where does it state you do not have to work. Its a mutual agreement signed by the company and the union represented employees.

 

[jimntx]

Dream away my friend

Other than the fact that a good majority of FA's do not want a mix, APFA would have a hard time trying to keep then seprate if that is what AA really wanted.

I agree but the fewer number of reserves would be minimal. The reserve pool people would be in a position where they would be required to be qualified on everything. The international reserves who dropped MD80 would have to go to DFW and requal, plus the domestics would have to have 777 and in some bases's the 300.

Oh, I'm fairly sure that I won't live long enough to get transferred back to DFW. The last time I checked, I was above 180 on the transfer list. The lowest I have ever been since I was recalled in Nov. 2004 is just above 150.

Not too sure about the reserve reduction being minimal. Right now at SLT, most months we have a number of reserves who don't cover their guarantees because there are so many people on reserve each month. The system needs to be rationalized again. After last year's coverage debacle, the company's solution has been to put anyone on reserve who is caught standing still for more than 10 seconds.

Of course, truth be known, I think a number of us are going to be furloughed again in 4th quarter. Some people who haven't cared about the furloughees or the overages are going to be unhappy when there is no one to take their trips from HIBOARD.

 

[FA Mikey]

Dont count on a furlough just yet. In weeks maybe a early out and the leaves might negate a furlough.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

jimntx,

A few questions if I may.

Wouldn't it Behoove a junior F/A to be based in LGA, given ALL of those NICE BIG Airplanes there, and the LOW seniority that(I think) goes with that base,

AND,

After you get "whacked" in STL, ...When....will you be going to LGA ?

(ABSOLUTELY..ZERO sarcasm implied) !

 

[FA Mikey]

Its all relative, some people like 777 and 767 others say no thanks.

 

[youbetcha]

I just returned from recurrent training, and I kid you not...Ran into 2 ladies only 757/767 qualified and ORD based...25 plus years seniority, and have yet to hold one of those lines on the bid sheet, thus getting paid their guarntee without having to step foot on an aircraft...That's the job I dream of having one day!! Pay without working....The "American" dream!

That can't be true. ORD has 2 767 trips and a few 757 trips and at that seniority, they could hold any one of them. And, yes, those trips frequently appear in open time.

 

[jimntx]

Dont count on a furlough just yet. In weeks maybe a early out and the leaves might negate a furlough.

Mike, I don't hold out any hope for overage leaves negating the need for a furlough. Remember, I've already been furloughed once since 9/11 even though "we never have any problem getting people to take overage leaves." I believe that was the quote from another poster.

 

[jimntx]

jimntx,

A few questions if I may.

Wouldn't it Behoove a junior F/A to be based in LGA, given ALL of those NICE BIG Airplanes there, and the LOW seniority that(I think) goes with that base,

AND,

After you get "whacked" in STL, ...When....will you be going to LGA ?

(ABSOLUTELY..ZERO sarcasm implied) !

We'll take the audience's question in order.

1. Depends. If you have family you can live with in New York (as several of my classmates did), yes the flying can be quite wonderful out of LGA and JFK. However, if you are having to pay $225-$250/mo (may be more now) for a hot sheet crash pad which was a 2-bedroom apt that now houses 14-15 people, not so much fun.
1a. Most New York f/as live/crashpad in Queens because most of the flying is out of LGA and JFK. But then you have those 0300 calls on reserve to sign-in at EWR at 0500. Now, since you have to get up and get ready, there is no public transportation that can get you to EWR in time; so, you have pay out of your own pocket for a cab. Last I heard from one of my classmates, it's about $60 one way. And, as happened to that classmate, you get to EWR, the flight cancels, and all you get is 3 hours call-out pay which barely pays for that cab ride.
2. Seniority is not as low at LGA these days as you would think. AFAIK, there is no one with less than 5 years there; so, everyone who is liable to serve reserve only has to serve reserve 3 times/year. That makes the reserve assignments go more senior. When I first started in 2000, someone with 4 years at LGA was totally off reserve. Lately, reserve has run up to 15-16 years some months.
3. If I were force transferred to LGA, it would be the end of this glamorous career #5, and I would have to move on to career #6. I have a beautiful home in Dallas. Commuting to New York is NOT an option. As much as I love the job, and as good as I am at it, it is not worth that much hassle.