Word from the top!

[luvn737s]

"But after 20+ years of dues paying to ALPA I would vote for anybody but ALPA"

I'm there

That's the best way to keep ALPA in place - no viable alternative. If the leadership of USAPA are the same folks who were unable to hold up there arbitration obligation or their obligation under the TA, then the would-be members of such an organization should see through USAPA's lack of integrity and consequent lack of leadership.

"Kids, here's your new deadbeat daddy. At least I'm not single anymore!"

 

[luvn737s]

The mess our two respective groups find themselves in will not be magically fixed by any ranting any of us do online, nor will any "magic bullet" come forth to make everything just peachy.

Sure there is. Doug could take out an ad on Craigslist

Airline. Located in Philadelphia. Needs work. Cheap. Will sell whole or part.

 

[ussnark]

I will have to completely disagree. I have found Doug to be both very approachable and quite caring and understanding. I have had the luxury of being involved in a conversation in which he took part and he was both courteous and very much appreciated everyones opinions... even those froma couple of us who worked for a US Express Contract carrier! I got the impression that he really does care about this company. Now maybe I'm easily won over.... but from my experience I will have to disagree with your comment.
If you have other experiences with him please enlighten me.

You confuse a persons demeanor with competence, common enough when you are good at the job you are.

1. Parker cares about the cash-flow. nada else. He is a over-hyped cash-flow manager. That is all.

It is said that some of the worst tyrants in the world are also some of the nicest people imaginable. I mean, look at George W. Bush. Everyone seems to want to have a beer with him, but he is responsible for over one million deaths in Iraq, alone.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Will ALPA begin proceedings to remove the USAPA shamans from ALPA membership?

Perhaps you're unaware, but the AWA MEC Chairmen McIlvenna used to be a chief proponent for the AWAPA, an attempt to replace ALPA that ended when the merger was announced. ALPA is a pretty forgiving bunch, accepting scabs and all. As long as officers don't outwardly advocate dumping ALPA they won't be touched.

 

[EastUS]

That's the best way to keep ALPA in place - no viable alternative. If the leadership of USAPA are the same folks who were unable to hold up there arbitration obligation or their obligation under the TA, then the would-be members of such an organization should see through USAPA's lack of integrity and consequent lack of leadership.

"Kids, here's your new deadbeat daddy. At least I'm not single anymore!"

"....lack of integrity..." Given that such springs forth from a AWA "youngster" with so little "time in grade" that it's laughable, and who wishes to leapfrog decades over people that've actually lived/worked through those many years...the "lack of integrity" thing's gotten pretty far past slightly tiresome. You're assuming that AWA naeivete, and utter self interest, plus a winning lottery ticket is somehow magically equivalent to "integrity"..Spare us. :down: Whether or not you've actually noticed as yet..we're not much concerned with west opinions as to what's appropriate by way of your notions of "integrity". Your group has show so very much thus far that we're naturally awed..but still 😉

Speaking of "integrity"...Isn't Alpo Nat'l duty/honor/country bound to "Present and Defend The List?"..How's that working out for everyone? I guess it's purely the west MEC guys who have "integrity"...Sheesh...grow up.

"Kids, here's your new deadbeat daddy". Funny..the "deadbeat" portion so perfectly describes Alpo...and your point is?

PS: I'm clear on why you guys out west now appear so pleased with Alpo..You've had so little experience with that noble organization, and all you've seen is the St Nic award...and are too busy salivating away to understand what the obvious consequences have been/will be. If you've paid ANY attention...you'll kindly at least observe that things ain't going so well for both east and west at present. Hmmm...pilot groups at "war"...no potential for better work/pay/benefits within the forseeable future...Gee: Thanks Alpo..you guys continue to do great things for the membership.

QUOTE(EastUS @ Aug 20 2007, 06:41 AM)
The mess our two respective groups find themselves in will not be magically fixed by any ranting any of us do online, nor will any "magic bullet" come forth to make everything just peachy."


quote name='luvn737s':"Sure there is. Doug could take out an ad on Craigslist

Airline. Located in Philadelphia. Needs work. Cheap. Will sell whole or part"

Very true, and he'll do that, or any merger, sell his mother to arabs/etc at his earliest convenience if he can make a few million off the transaction. Again: What's your point? Can you possibly still be enmeshed in some fantasy that allows you to even momentarilly imagine that this guy "cares", at any level, for the workforce? Hmm..speaking of "integrity"..perhaps you should be addressing your concerns elsewhere 😉

 

[AAA73Pilot]

That's the best way to keep ALPA in place - no viable alternative. If the leadership of USAPA are the same folks who were unable to hold up there arbitration obligation or their obligation under the TA, then the would-be members of such an organization should see through USAPA's lack of integrity and consequent lack of leadership.

"Kids, here's your new deadbeat daddy. At least I'm not single anymore!"

Thankfully, USAPA is a growing viable alternative and not of the same leadership. There might even be covert support among the current ALPA leadership. But they are definitely not in any position of public leadership that I know of. Think about it, if they were do you not think ALPA National would be all over this place trying to remove them? The Article 8 charges would be coming fast and furious.

Lack of integrity and leadership? Your assumptions need revisiting.

 

[elixir]

You guys are killing me. I read this thread and shake my head...I really do. I'm a East FUR guy, DOH 2000...who was near the bottom out East...I've been on the street...I've banged around flying express for BOTH sides now...East and West...I live in PHX and work as a J4J CA out East....I see and hear this #### all day, every day, from both sides. I respect both sides opinions, but for the life of Pete, you guys are missing an opportunity to make gains for BOTH sides, as Doug has openly said he'll pay to put it to bed. Your pissing match at each other empowers him to play one off the other forever..stupid leverage to freely give. What about the 92 new aircraft? Which "side" gets them?....You're both making it easy for him to "work" you both over...and who will lose? BOTH of your "sides". I'm recalled and frozen at yet another POS regional...doing the same thing for the same money as I was 12 years ago...

Stop your bitching, and work TOGETHER to benefit BOTH sides...and make the company pay for the luxury...he's gonna have to in order to settle this...and you guys are still fighting amongst yourselves...

just stupid.

And just so I don't get berrated for being a "newbie" with a 2000 hire date, I'm no spring chicken, and my next older brother finished out at Airways with a 1977 hire date...(and lost it all to PBGC) I know about the evolution of the East...and I've worked out West for over 6 years as an "express" pilot...and now I'm back East ....again...as an "express" pilot. I know the story from both sides.

Get a deal...and make Doug pay for it.

 

[SkyRat]

You guys are killing me. I read this thread and shake my head...I really do. I'm a East FUR guy, DOH 2000...who was near the bottom out East...I've been on the street...I've banged around flying express for BOTH sides now...East and West...I live in PHX and work as a J4J CA out East....I see and hear this #### all day, every day, from both sides. I respect both sides opinions, but for the life of Pete, you guys are missing an opportunity to make gains for BOTH sides, as Doug has openly said he'll pay to put it to bed. Your pissing match at each other empowers him to play one off the other forever..stupid leverage to freely give. What about the 92 new aircraft? Which "side" gets them?....You're both making it easy for him to "work" you both over...and who will lose? BOTH of your "sides". I'm recalled and frozen at yet another POS regional...doing the same thing for the same money as I was 12 years ago...

Stop your bitching, and work TOGETHER to benefit BOTH sides...and make the company pay for the luxury...he's gonna have to, in order to settle this...and you gys are still fighting amongst yourselves...

just stupid.

AMEN!!!

 

[ussnark]

What about the 92 new aircraft? Which "side" gets them?....You're both making it easy for him to "work" you both over...and who will lose? BOTH of your "sides".

I would think Parker would put the aircraft wherever they would do the most good.

For him to "participate" in what is a labor only process would have some pretty serious consequences, I would think.

The east has "been there, done that". Not to say it would not happen but ........

 

[elixir]

I would think Parker would put the aircraft wherever they would do the most good.

For him to "participate" in what is a labor only process would have some pretty serious consequences, I would think.

The east has "been there, done that". Not to say it would not happen but ........

Of course he will...as for the planes...believe this: the biggest ones will likely go East...to PHL. $$$ in the International side of things. As to involvement, he's reluctant...rightfully so. I suggest both MEC's smoke a little peacepipe and craft a deal that both sides can live with...and one that he'll sign off on....If that means both sides get some gains...I'd call that a win. It's what he wants anyway...help him to write the check, and come to a freakin' agreement amongst yourselves.

 

[elixir]

Well, I've about had it with reading the cry me a river posturing going on here...it's all horse####...none of you guys posting have probably been down my road recently...Of course seniority is important...I get it ....do me a favor...spend a few years out on the street..then we'll talk. Meantime, shut the fcuck up.
You guys both have excellent points..on both sides..neither of which mean a hill of beans going forward.

I keep hearing about "who bought who"...."who makes more money..." You guys are driving me nuts....apparently, you haven't been furloughed recently enough....I have.

Tell you what....you guys just keep bitching about the "deal"...and we'll all just fcuck the company enough to secure a fresh FURLOUGH for all of you....then we'll talk.


Meantime, get off your as$ and talk to each other about a deal that works.

I'm old, I'm tired, and I'm too old to listen to this horse#### for much longer....And I give you guys rides in the JS all the time and listen to you #### about your lives....makes me want to fcucking puke.

 

[luvn737s]

"....lack of integrity..." Given that such springs forth from a AWA "youngster" with so little "time in grade" that it's laughable,

I was a youngster 3 airlines ago. But watching the tantrums of the east brings me back to the days when my kids were little. At least they could be excused for immaturity rather than embarrased by it.

 

[luvn737s]

Of course he will...as for the planes...believe this: the biggest ones will likely go East...to PHL. $$$ in the International side of things. As to involvement, he's reluctant...rightfully so. I suggest both MEC's smoke a little peacepipe and craft a deal that both sides can live with...and one that he'll sign off on....If that means both sides get some gains...I'd call that a win. It's what he wants anyway...help him to write the check, and come to a freakin' agreement amongst yourselves.

If the arbitrators decision is amended just because of the threats from the side that didn't get all they wanted, the arbitration process will be history. All ALPA airlines can learn from this and seek a workable solution before arbitration. Otherwise you own it.

 

[ussnark]

As to involvement, he's reluctant...rightfully so.

I should hope so. If he is caught meddling in union affairs he gets to sleep with Bubba for a few years.

I suggest both MEC's smoke a little peacepipe and craft a deal that both sides can live with...and one that he'll sign off on....If that means both sides get some gains...I'd call that a win. It's what he wants anyway...help him to write the check, and come to a freakin' agreement amongst yourselves.

Nope. The east guys gave up salary (70+% in my case), medical and retirement. They ain't gonna give up seniority.

I'd love the concept of right seat to a twenty year junior left seat, that left seater would spend the next two weeks filling out paperwork. You wanna come east. Bring a big pen. and lots of paper.

You want professionalism? Wear a tutu. Because you might as well be comfortable as you dance.

The only win will be DOH, with conditions and restrictions. As it should have been from the beginning.

 

[nostradamus]

If the arbitrators decision is amended just because of the threats from the side that didn't get all they wanted, the arbitration process will be history. All ALPA airlines can learn from this and seek a workable solution before arbitration. Otherwise you own it.

The arbitrator role in airline seniority issues is history due to the Nicolau award.