Word from the top!

[AWA320]

AWA320,

Do yourself a favor and dump EASTUS. I did and flushed him down. You never have to read is diarrhea...this is all I see now...

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Don't waste your time with him or he might challenge you to a duel

I should shouldn't I?? I guess I am trying to understand that small mind mentality!!

 

[EastUS]

AWA320,

Do yourself a favor and dump EASTUS. I did and flushed him down. You never have to read is diarrhea...this is all I see now...

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Don't waste your time with him or he might challenge you to a duel

AWA:" I should shouldn't I?? I guess I am trying to understand that small mind mentality!! "

Sigh...me too..my doctors think I'm making progress..how's it going on your side?

 

[EastUS]

Points to ponder:

Given the fact that both East and West have dug their heels in I think we could all agree to the following:

1. Date of Hire for seniority purposes is Dead.

2. Implementation of Nicolau is equally Dead.

The players ALPA East & West, ALPA national and the company all have much to gain and lose so finding common ground is essential to all. So the challenge is to create a situation that places pressure on all to come to an arrangement. The other key is to find the key stress point. So who has the most to lose over time? IMO ALPA National would be the one with the most to lose and the most to gain.

IMO that's where the pressure needs to be applied. If BOTH sides appear to be united in ousting ALPA then they HAVE to do something. So IMO everyone should be signing a card. ALPA sees the dues stream drying up they will have to get off their arse. IIRC just signing a card doesn't obligate you to vote for another union, so signing the card and having an election will make ALPA pay attention.

Just some thoughts to get things settled

A sound strategic opener to my thinking. I doubt that many west workers will see the need to put Alpo's feet to the flames at this point in time though.

 

[BajaBabe]

My good friends anyone who is DUMB enough to think that Doug Parker wrote this letter has got to be smoking his crack in his orifice. Unfortunately Doug, your presentation is weak at best and your follow through is terrible. You have minions who do your grunt work and they deserve better than you. I have spoken to you one time and you were as arrogant as Nancy Reagan .You are now trying to appeal to the rational of the pilots because you never thought you would feel the squeeze. You with your cheap suit you could not sell a car if your life depended on it. I know many employees who have appealed to you and as Nancy did you would state to a minion "tell them I do not want anything." Now big boy your circle has to widen I have been in those circles and its intoxicating . Doug you came to Philadelphia and we were like refugees and you SPUN your story . The only thing is that you are not or will ever be the MAN to run this Airline. Your a puppet ala Jerry Mahoney and if you cared about people we would have felt the touch. Doug it hurts me to have to tell you that you have hurt people and put people in places that enabled your cult group to act as ROBOTS. I have had to grieve to lose what I loved and yet rubbing 2 nickels together is better than living your lies. I do not want to hurt Nancy Reagan however she never spoke to the hired help.............as in flight attendants.....only her FBI had permission to talk to the hired help.

 

[hp_fa]

Huh?

Nancy Reagan?

FBI? (I'll bet you meant Secret Service)

Why don't you go have another drink and look for black helicopters at the same time.

 

[ussnark]

Huh?

Nancy Reagan?

FBI? (I'll bet you meant Secret Service)

Why don't you go have another drink and look for black helicopters at the same time.

No, obviously ignorant person.

It was FBI. Try to learn something about government, not that it would help your addled excuse for grey matter.

 

[luvn737s]

Your logic's at it's finest again tonight. First: "When the representation election fails" Secondly: "will the East be able to have 10 more elections until they get the result they want?" So..if I have this right...The representation election will fail...but it's actually what the east wants? = "get the result they want?"

Nice try, but no. The radicals on the east (who tar the innocent reasonable majority with their behavior) will no more respect the will of the majority as expressed in a vote that does not give USAPA the majority it needs, than it has the binding arbitration it agreed to.

Jack Stephan's days at the head of the US MEC are numbered. 20 strikes and you're OUT! I would expect a recall of Stephan to be far more likely and productive and someone who really has the best interests of ALL the US pilots will replace him. He has yet to demonstrate anything more than his ability to incite a pogramme that backfires on it's participants. US pilots are in need of true leadership and their continued membership in ALPA gives them their best long-term hope for improving their careers.

Too many US pilots can ill afford to watch Stephan chase his tail, especially when he spends half his time growling at it. He's spending the pilots future earnings and they know it.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

How long can reality be denied? Will ALPA begin proceedings to remove the USAPA shamans from ALPA membership?

I would have to guess they have not been members for a very long time. Only paying maintenance dues.

 

[EastUS]

Nice try, but no. The radicals on the east (who tar the innocent reasonable majority with their behavior) will no more respect the will of the majority as expressed in a vote that does not give USAPA the majority it needs, than it has the binding arbitration it agreed to.

Jack Stephan's days at the head of the US MEC are numbered. 20 strikes and you're OUT! I would expect a recall of Stephan to be far more likely and productive and someone who really has the best interests of ALL the US pilots will replace him. He has yet to demonstrate anything more than his ability to incite a pogramme that backfires on it's participants. US pilots are in need of true leadership and their continued membership in ALPA gives them their best long-term hope for improving their careers.

Too many US pilots can ill afford to watch Stephan chase his tail, especially when he spends half his time growling at it. He's spending the pilots future earnings and they know it.

"The radicals on the east (who tar the innocent reasonable majority with their behavior) will no more respect the will of the majority as expressed in a vote that does not give USAPA the majority it needs, than it has the binding arbitration it agreed to. "

I see now. There isn't massive anger at Alpo in the east...There's just a few "radicals"?....and those few have Prater squealing in open letters against decertification? Sure seems like a waste of his time to concern himself with a mere few "radicals".doesn't it?, Given that "the reasonable majority" obviously wont vote out Alpo then? It must be that Prater's concerns are ill founded..as are the previously expressed concerns by the AWA MEC on decertification. You may wish to just tell them that all's well, and to stop pandering to the few "radicals" then. If your views are accurate...they're all just wasting their time fighting an "empty threat".

"US pilots are in need of true leadership and their continued membership in ALPA gives them their best long-term hope for improving their careers." You're joking I assume. Alpo's done nothing but give away little things like pensions, pay rates, work rules, and now seniority. IMHO: Only a blithering idiot out east would keep hope up for Alpo doing anything for them, as opposed to doing things TO them.

No brusque offence meant, but: As an AWA guy who hasn't been through much of anythng during the last two decades, and is seeking ridiculously enhanced "seniority," at east expense, via the Alpo/Nic fiasco, has no interest in seeing pay parity for the east without surrender on the Nic BS/etc...you're short of being the perfect, and most reasonable person to ask about how to set about "improving their careers"? The AWA happily took the profit sharing "gift", but is adamantly opposed to the east getting any crumbs of pay parity..untill the west gets the full benefit of the Nic present. This hardly makes for any degree of good promotion for "We're all Alpa brothers/sisters"/etc.

It'sadly, pretty clear that we're two groups with greatly divergent self interests. I'm thinking about keeping our own counsel on these issues.

PS: Do you honestly believe that what either MEC, east or west has been/is doing represents "true leadership?" Do you see Prater's latest squeals as indicative of any such thing?
Do you honestly even have any respect for someone that likes wearing ailrine captain "costumes", but never flies..and takes in a half million per year of YOUR/OUR money for sitting at a desk?

Isn't it ALpo's job to fix the Nic mess..either by signing the list, or finding fault with it? Isn't it also the "union's" duty to enhance the working lives of it's membership? And...umm..how are they doing so far? Over three months into the Nic Fiasco..and all we have is virtual warfare between the east/west groups...Great job Alpo.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

US pilots are in need of true leadership and their continued membership in ALPA gives them their best long-term hope for improving their careers.

I can agree with half that sentence. You really have it right about TRUE leadership. But after 20+ years of dues paying to ALPA I would vote for anybody but ALPA. It just so happens that USAPA is my only alternative. I would even vote for the Dishwashers of America if it would get ALPA off the property. Guess I'm one of the really disenfranchised soon to be an ex member. Figure my threatening letter of pay up or else is in the mail.

 

[EastUS]

I should shouldn't I?? I guess I am trying to understand that small mind mentality!!

"AWA:" I should shouldn't I?? I guess I am trying to understand that small mind mentality!! "

My heart's warmed and aglow. I see that you little young ones have finally gotten together for an AWA "group hug", as I've long suggested

PS Cactus:"Don't waste your time with him or he might challenge you to a duel "... Bragging about your skills, then running your mouth off with insults, and subsequently shirking any contest offerred doesn't really make you any less of a "Man of Honor"..at least in your own mind...so why show any hurt feelings? You can always continue to "Man Up" to the situation via your keyboard

 

[EastUS]

I can agree with half that sentence. You really have it right about TRUE leadership. But after 20+ years of dues paying to ALPA I would vote for anybody but ALPA. It just so happens that USAPA is my only alternative. I would even vote for the Dishwashers of America if it would get ALPA off the property. Guess I'm one of the really disenfranchised soon to be an ex member. Figure my threatening letter of pay up or else is in the mail.

"But after 20+ years of dues paying to ALPA I would vote for anybody but ALPA"

I'm there

 

[nostradamus]

What is it that we need to wake up too??? You folks knew full well the deal you wanted arbitration and you got arbitration now you don't want to honor your obligations and agreements!!! The solutions were offered PRIOR A320!! Now you come after the fact begging??? No bro it don't work like that!!

You guys are lost man!! Do you really think that by changing unions you get to throw out an arbitrated award?? Think abou it A320, you only want to get rid of alpa because you didn't get the award from the the third party that you wanted. You don't think a federal judge will see right through your motives?? You are killing yourselves for nothing bro...

Here is a solution HONOR YOUR OBLIGATIONS!!!!!

"Do I believe in arbitration? I do. But not in arbitration between the lion and the lamb, in which the lamb is in the morning found inside the lion."
Samuel Gompers

 

[EastUS]

East"Ah..the tired old AWA "Righteous Position" again. As usual,; posted by a person with laughably little longevity, but a love for misusing the word Honor. I suppose that such is offered in lieu of any actual thought that might address at least some aspects of reality = QUOTE"

AWA"Tired and weak arguement on your part and didn't go very well thru the arb process either but I give you credit for continuing to try the same weak arguement over and over and over."

FYI...the above doesn't constitue any "argument". It's a "statement". You might want to take a philosophy/logic class sometime.

"We don't need law suits, we need WORKABLE solutions or ALPA IS TOAST"

AWA: "Wrong partner the last card has yet to be played you gonna love this one!!"
Now, that's truly scary.and also double-top-secret it would seem. We'd best immediately start searching for WMD's out in PHX. I'm thinking that this is around the twelfth time you've "cried wolf" about "game over easties"/etc. It sorta' loses some of the dramatic effect when repeatedly observed to be deranged ranting. And your dramatic topic title: "Game is almost over easties and your options are running out." = Just more vindictive, and wishful thinking on your part, and based upon nothing of substance whatsoever.

East: "Sounds more like you're the one "begging" us not to dump Alpo "
AWA: "You won't get it done anyway" Hmmm..makes me wonder why you're so upset then. Care to wager on it anyway?..Given that you're so certain?

East:"we've abundant reasons for wishing to see Alpo gone. You blithely skp over all those reasons in favor of advancing your personal agenda. Nic was just the icing on the rancid Alpo cake."

AWA: "How can that be when you made NO MOVES AT ALL towards removing ALPA PRIOR?????
The Nic BS served as a workable catalyst to get the group worked up together to dump Alpo...finally. Pearl Harbor did wonders to finally get America into WWII....Why did the nation make "NO MOVES" prior to that time?..Because they all loved the Japanese? Again: You might want to take a philosophy/logic class sometime.

AWA:"Do you actually believe the lies you tell?? Is this how you make it thru your days lying to yourself in hopes that at some point you believe them???"
No Dr Goebbels...I think that's more in line with your world view. BTW: I thought we're all brainwashed out east by the MEC's "lies". I'm now a "liar" as well?..or just a brainwashed"sheep?" Do you find it, as I do, somewhat interesting that EVERYONE but you, and your precious west MEC "lies?" or does it just seem somewhat psychotic to my perceptions?

AWA: "Get a clue man we're tired of your BS games "
Umm...SO? I should possibly, even slightly care about you being upset....WHY? Uh Oh...I'd better get back to searching PHX for those WMDs

The mess our two respective groups find themselves in will not be magically fixed by any ranting any of us do online, nor will any "magic bullet" come forth to make everything just peachy. We're going to have to finally work this out. That toxic relationships have spawned from forums, and/or conversations doesn't really matter in the long run. There's certainly some of you that I'd not ever wish to meet, and I'm quite certain the reverse is fully true. All of the "Nyaah, Nyaahs" tossed about here mean little to the overall process though. You won't likely find some magic "Daddy" to fix this mess, and we'll have to negotiate aplenty at some point, or suffer the consequences. I've not the slightest fantasy that straight DOH can/will prevail...but there's no way that straight Nic will prove playable either. Untill the west disabuses themselves of that fantasy...nothing will move forward in the slightest. Id think that essentially "roping off" the two sections would be an acceptable solution, but you/the more vehement west folk wish to not even entertain the thought. So be it then. It's not inconceivable that this company could simply fail within the next three years or so anyway. Certainly; some future merger/sale/etc is likely. Before you fire up some BS rant..yet again..just think on any actually possible solutions..and not merely some fantasy that suits your purpose alone. The east won't buy off on Nic as currently set up...period. You can pull whatever BS from your ..wherever, that you want to..such will change nothing.

The only certainty about the future..is that it will never be exactly as one imagines.

 

[BottomFeeder]

Man if I was a West Pilot and you said something like that to me, I'd beat you within an inch of your everloving life.

You still don't get it that the REAL enemy here is US Airways. Not ALPA, although their help is questionable, NOT your brethren on West. The militants on the West don't get it either so you're not alone.

You just don't get that by tabling Nic in the short term and delaying integration until a solution can be worked out and going for the MONEY RIGHT NOW you can end up with the best of both worlds.

"Let's get ready to rumble"