Word from the top!

[USA320Pilot]

A320 Driver,

A320 Driver said: "We don't need law suits, we need WORKABLE solutions or ALPA IS TOAST. People are getting tired of waiting, me most of all. That is why my card went in. It is time for ALPA National and both MECs to step up to the plate and find a way to move forward or we need to move in another direction in the hope of finding a fair solution."

USA320Pilot: Well said and I agree with your comments 100%. I too submitted my card after spending 10 hours flying back and forth between PIT and SFO with a USAPA principal last week and learning from him their position, the law, and their plans.

I hope there is a "realistic solution" and the East and West pilots can remain a part of ALPA, but if not I believe USAPA will be the move in another direction that will find a fair solution.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[dariencc]

I hope the East MEC has deep pockets as you will be sued by US, just look what happened at AA with APA and UAL and NWA with AMFA.

Any concerted effort of a slowdown will cause a TRO, Injuction and fines, better hope US does not get Judge Kendell.

The NWA pilots seem to have come out of their "concerted effort" none the worse for wear.

As for Judge Kendell's fine imposed on APA, I guess you missed my previous posts correcting your usual Google search nonsense. That fine was waived as part of the subsequent ratified CBA. The union made it clear......fine goes away or no CBA. It's amazing what a strong unified union can accomplish.

One would think you'd be getting it by now. Surfing Google does not make you the ultimate expert on everything.

 

[700UW]

Guess you ignored the part about how the CBA was a concessionary contract worth more than the value of the fine imposed and yes APA did transfer some money to the court to pay the first installment of the fine.

A couple of billion dollars in concessions collected by AA instead of $45 million, now who made out better?

The exact dollar figure of concessions since 2003 is $2.6 Billion. Source Allied Pilots Association.

Concessions

Don't let the facts get in your way!

 

[Pacemaker]

Parker may be a nice guy and sincere and all that, but he's repeated the mistake of the past Piedmont/PSA mergers in bringing together two regional airlines with result being 1 + 1 is less than two, and operationally he's in way over his head.

 

[dariencc]

Guess you ignored the part about how the CBA was a concessionary contract worth more than the value of the fine imposed and yes APA did transfer some money to the court to pay the first installment of the fine.

Hundreds of millions of dollars in concessions collected by AA instead of $45 million, now who made out better?

Once your Google search misinformation is exposed, you resort to outright fabrication. What a fraud!

The APA was involved in concessionary negotiations at that time that were going to be worth hundreds of millions of dollars. The sick out that led to the fine was NOT caused by those talks, but by the issue of immediate integration and pay raises for the Reno Air pilots.

The first tentative agreement was voted down by the membership. During the renegotiations, the court ordered the union to begin making fine payments from the escrow account. The amounts were trivial. When a new agreement was reached, it was ratified by the membership. The union made it clear to the company that the fine would go away if the airline wanted a period of relative labor peace. They refused to discuss the fine as a negotiable item during the talks. It was not traded for anything. Don Carty and his team saw that it was time to take the company forward and made the smart decision. This information was given to me by an APA council rep who served at the time of these events.



Hundreds of millions of dollars in concessions collected by AA instead of $45 million

Where do we get such men?

 

[dariencc]

Guess you ignored the part about how the CBA was a concessionary contract worth more than the value of the fine imposed and yes APA did transfer some money to the court to pay the first installment of the fine.

I see you have added a new post trying to make it seem you are well informed on this issue. What a joke.


APA did transfer some money to the court to pay the first installment of the fine.

So all your previous denials of the above and repeated false statements that the union paid the whole fine (which you later amended to 23 million) were b.s. after all. Thanks for the clarification. Should I blame you or Google?


Guess you ignored the part about how the CBA was a concessionary contract worth more than the value of the fine imposed

What I ignored was your non sequiter. The concessionary talks were unrelated to the sick out that caused the fine. They were negotiating over hundreds of millions of dollars in annual give-backs. The fine was a sideshow.

You are a very desperate man. :blink:

 

[AWA320]

Neither can you. For you to think that the Nic award can be forwarded and everyone go on their merry way is laughable. You want an East wake up call? Well, the same goes for the West.

We don't need law suits, we need WORKABLE solutions or ALPA IS TOAST. People are getting tired of waiting, me most of all. That is why my card went in. It is time for ALPA National and both MECs to step up to the plate and find a way to move forward or we need to move in another direction in the hope of finding a fair solution.
A320 Driver

What is it that we need to wake up too??? You folks knew full well the deal you wanted arbitration and you got arbitration now you don't want to honor your obligations and agreements!!! The solutions were offered PRIOR A320!! Now you come after the fact begging??? No bro it don't work like that!!

You guys are lost man!! Do you really think that by changing unions you get to throw out an arbitrated award?? Think abou it A320, you only want to get rid of alpa because you didn't get the award from the the third party that you wanted. You don't think a federal judge will see right through your motives?? You are killing yourselves for nothing bro...

Here is a solution HONOR YOUR OBLIGATIONS!!!!!

 

[LCC_#1]

The issue is seniority, and you retained what you brought to the merger, period. Your US DOH seniority is not righteous as you proclaim. Rather it was slotted with an equally superior seniority at AWA. The real difference here is you think your seniority was inherently more valuable than your counterpart – that is just prop wash.

I thought the issue was attrition? You guys have so many “issuesâ€￾ I can’t possibly keep track of them. :blink:

HEY CALLSIGN
Since you do not value DOH, how about foregoing YOURS to new hires. I mean, if it means nothing for the US East pilots, then I'm sure you will be MORE than happy to forgo YOURS for a 20 yr old.

 

[EastUS]

What is it that we need to wake up too??? You folks knew full well the deal you wanted arbitration and you got arbitration now you don't want to honor your obligations and agreements!!! The solutions were offered PRIOR A320!! Now you come after the fact begging??? No bro it don't work like that!!

You guys are lost man!! Do you really think that by changing unions you get to throw out an arbitrated award?? Think abou it A320, you only want to get rid of alpa because you didn't get the award from the the third party that you wanted. You don't think a federal judge will see right through your motives?? You are killing yourselves for nothing bro...

Here is a solution HONOR YOUR OBLIGATIONS!!!!!

Ah..the tired old AWA "Righteous Position" again. As usual,; posted by a person with laughably little longevity, but a love for misusing the word Honor. I suppose that such is offered in lieu of any actual thought that might address at least some aspects of reality = QUOTE(A320 Driver "For you to think that the Nic award can be forwarded and everyone go on their merry way is laughable. You want an East wake up call? Well, the same goes for the West.

We don't need law suits, we need WORKABLE solutions or ALPA IS TOAST"

AWA320: "Now you come after the fact begging???" Sounds more like you're the one "begging" us not to dump Alpo

AWA320:"You guys are lost man!!" How can that be possible? I thought that we were all "sheep" following our sheep herders at the MEC?,

AWA320: "you only want to get rid of alpa because you didn't get the award from the the third party that you wanted." That's amazingly naieve...we've abundant reasons for wishing to see Alpo gone. You blithely skp over all those reasons in favor of advancing your personal agenda. Nic was just the icing on the rancid Alpo cake.

 

[luvn737s]

When the representation election fails, will the East be able to have 10 more elections until they get the result they want?

How long can reality be denied? Will ALPA begin proceedings to remove the USAPA shamans from ALPA membership?

 

[EastUS]

When the representation election fails, will the East be able to have 10 more elections until they get the result they want?

How long can reality be denied? Will ALPA begin proceedings to remove the USAPA shamans from ALPA membership?

Your logic's at it's finest again tonight. First: "When the representation election fails" Secondly: "will the East be able to have 10 more elections until they get the result they want?" So..if I have this right...The representation election will fail...but it's actually what the east wants? = "get the result they want?"

"How long can reality be denied?" Good question. The west has been on a roll for three full months and change now.

"Will ALPA begin proceedings to remove the USAPA shamans from ALPA membership?" Best guess? = No.

 

[AWA320]

Ah..the tired old AWA "Righteous Position" again. As usual,; posted by a person with laughably little longevity, but a love for misusing the word Honor. I suppose that such is offered in lieu of any actual thought that might address at least some aspects of reality = QUOTE

Tired and weak arguement on your part and didn't go very well thru the arb process either but I give you credit for continuing to try the same weak arguement over and over and over.

We don't need law suits, we need WORKABLE solutions or ALPA IS TOAST"

Wrong partner the last card has yet to be played you gonna love this one!!

AWA320: "Now you come after the fact begging???" Sounds more like you're the one "begging" us not to dump Alpo

You won't get it done anyway but what I am advocating is getting the contract we all deserve...

AWA320:"You guys are lost man!!" How can that be possible? I thought that we were all "sheep" following our sheep herders at the MEC?,

Oh no you didn't ask that question did you?? Your MEC has been lost for some time yet you still follow BLINDLY. I guess that make you dumb sheep at that

AWA320: "you only want to get rid of alpa because you didn't get the award from the the third party that you wanted." That's amazingly naieve...we've abundant reasons for wishing to see Alpo gone. You blithely skp over all those reasons in favor of advancing your personal agenda. Nic was just the icing on the rancid Alpo cake.

How can that be when you made NO MOVES AT ALL towards removing ALPA PRIOR????? Do you actually believe the lies you tell?? Is this how you make it thru your days lying to yourself in hopes that at some point you believe them???

Get a clue man we're tired of your BS games and have done all we can on that high road in hopes that you would get your act together however it's obvious to the MAAJORITY of the alpa members that you guys are in desprate need of some adult supervision!! It's on the way EastUS it's on the way...

 

[EastUS]

Get a clue man we're tired of your BS games and have done all we can on that high road in hopes that you would get your act together however it's obvious to the MAAJORITY of the alpa members that you guys are in desprate need of some adult supervision!! It's on the way EastUS it's on the way...

"It's on the way EastUS it's on the way..." Bring it on boy


"have done all we can on that high road" Spare me.

"you guys are in desprate need of some adult supervision!!" A better reason for dismissing Alpo couldn't be forwarded.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

I agree DOH has value if you stay at your own carrier. You certainly don't take it with you when you move to another carrier. In a merger I value protecting SENIORITY. There has never been a better example of having a dinosaur DOH but absolutely zero seniority, than with the east pilots. A guy hired in 88 at the very bottom of the list is a sad testament to a freefall career the east pilots were facing. The bottom guy on the east list holds no more seniority than our bottom guy, that's a fact. Normally, all things being equal, US Airways should have had 5000 + pilots on the list, with new hires in 05' like AWA. Using the same Nic award would have resulted in a more balanced list in terms of DOH. But that was not the cards dealt for the east pilots, US Airways was downsizing faster than they were losing cash and were left with pilots hired 88 and earlier.

I doubt you will ever find a much worse scenario than what we have seen here since all other carriers, besides old US, have pilot work forces with similar DOH distributions as AWA. Meaning, they have pilots hired in the 70’s to recent years, not all boxed in a ten year span because monstrous downsizing and near collapse.

HEY CALLSIGN
Since you do not value DOH, how about foregoing YOURS to new hires. I mean, if it means nothing for the US East pilots, then I'm sure you will be MORE than happy to forgo YOURS for a 20 yr old.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

AWA320,

Do yourself a favor and dump EASTUS. I did and flushed him down. You never have to read is diarrhea...this is all I see now...

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Don't waste your time with him or he might challenge you to a duel

Get a clue man we're tired of your BS games and have done all we can on that high road in hopes that you would get your act together however it's obvious to the MAAJORITY of the alpa members that you guys are in desprate need of some adult supervision!! It's on the way EastUS it's on the way...