AWA ALPA LEC 62 Update

[EastUS]

You can delay but guess who will get burned?? Your east brothers and sisters!! Can't have it both ways Pi sorry. Long before this MEC will allow you to stall that long we'll snatch your mec right back in to arbitration and you will lose!!! We have been patient and taking the high road for the most part but the high road also has to desend at some point as well.

Sheep Pi deal with your real problem, because the west MEC never lied to you or your pilots, think about it!!!!

"deal with your real problem" We are
Talk to The Hands Bozo...the ones that are filling out their decert forms

I should start putting up some of your postings out east....just in case ANYONE is still on the fence as per Alpo.........

 

[luvn737s]

WTF"s the problem with maintaining the two sides as seperate groups, and working toward an actually decent contract? Are you THAT desperate to steal someone's seat out east?

What about the folks who want a pay raise who are not about to upgrade immediately?

Hint- That's the bulk of the pilots on both sides, but let's keep that our little secret, eh?

 

[AWA320]

I'd love to see ANYTHING even slightly possible to enact brought forward that even MIGHT prove workable for both "sides" of us all. It would indicate some hope of actual progress..even if the first shot wholly misses the mark. I'm not thinking about holding my breath though. I feel that any solution would essentially require keeping the "sides" seperate at this point. I've no thughts that the Nic award, as it exists, will ever "sell" out east. Sigh...Waikiki....dammitall Alpo.

East you seem to keep missing the clue, there is nothing to work out except a contract. The arbitration is over there is no second bite at the apple on this! Now let me explain what you are in for next. Your law suit has been move to federal court and will be shot down in short order. Next the west MEC is in the process of snatching your mec right back in to arbitration and you will lose there too. Wake up man!!!

Ok so you state that you understand that you reps are the problem, how do you fix it?? How do you keep the same thing from happining all over again no matter who the union is??

Fix that and you have dealt with 90% of your problems.

 

[EastUS]

What about the folks who want a pay raise who are not about to upgrade immediately?

Hint- That's the bulk of the pilots on both sides, but let's keep that our little secret, eh?

What about: The majority vote in any new contract...which, among other adjusments, could favor longevity far more than the current model allows.

There's a LOT more of us out east btw. "let's keep that our little secret, eh?"

Ok so you state that you understand that you reps are the problem, how do you fix it?? .

Ummmm...NO...nowhere do I "state" any such thing. The reps are part of the problem but: I believe that Alpo's entire structure's seriously flawed, and totally fails to serve the needs of line pilots in any meaningfull fashion. The Nic fiasco's but the icing on the cake imho...and that of many, many others.

AWA320:"Next the west MEC is in the process of snatching your mec right back in to arbitration and you will lose there too. Wake up man!!!"

Take your best shot!! Everything that your glorious mec does merely serves to add logs to the Alpo bonfire out east I couldn't wish for, or even imagine a more qualified bunch of "Usefull Idiots" for advancing the decert drive

"how do you fix it??"
Dump Alpo/start over with something workable.

 

[AWA320]

"deal with your real problem" We are
Talk to The Hands Bozo...the ones that are filling out their decert forms

I should start putting up some of your postings out east....just in case ANYONE is still on the fence as per Alpo.........

You do what you feel you gotta do East but you haven't done anything smart yet!!! I wish you all the best in your decert effort and look fwd to seeing CAL EAL part two! One airline two pilot groups going in completely opposite directions. Your dues are going to be outrageous without 2000 pilots contributing a penny Good luck trying to get agency shop with that many non paying members. You'll be broke within a year

What about: The majority vote in any new contract...which, among other adjusments, could favor longevity far more than the current model allows.

There's a LOT more of us out east btw. "let's keep that our little secret, eh?"
Ummmm...NO...nowhere do I "state" any such thing. The reps are part of the problem but: I believe that Alpo's entire structure's seriously flawed, and totally fails to serve the needs of line pilots in any meaningfull fashion.

"how do you fix it??"
Dump Alpo/start over with something workable.

Ahh did you just not say the same thing I did there East?? Your reps are the problem!! Reread time for you.

Something workable????

You can not get out of the award by changing unions east!! You are only going to move us closer to the company getting the list. Without ALPA we will no doubt get a court order to present the list ASAP. So move a little faster will ya???

 

[EastUS]

You do what you feel you gotta do East but you haven't done anything smart yet!!! I wish you all the best in your decert effort and look fwd to seeing CAL EAL part two! One airline two pilot groups going in completely opposite directions. Your dues are going to be outrageous without 2000 pilots contributing a penny Good luck trying to get agency shop with that many non paying members. You'll be broke within a year
Ahh did you just not say the same thing I did there East?? Your reps are the problem!! Reread time for you.

Something workable????

You can not get out of the award by changing unions east!! You are only going to move us closer to the company getting the list. Without ALPA we will no doubt get a court order to present the list ASAP. So move a little faster will ya???

"I couldn't wish for, or even imagine a more qualified bunch of "Usefull Idiots" for advancing the decert drive"

 

[Pi brat]

You can delay but guess who will get burned?? Your east brothers and sisters!! Can't have it both ways Pi sorry. Long before this MEC will allow you to stall that long we'll snatch your mec right back in to arbitration and you will lose!!! We have been patient and taking the high road for the most part but the high road also has to desend at some point as well.

Sheep Pi deal with your real problem, because the west MEC never lied to you or your pilots, think about it!!!!

I hoped you would step into that. Two problems-1) This pilot group was already so fed up that they just needed one more thing to get the ball rolling for decert. 2) The award was so lopsided that many pilots are willing to stick with what they have rather than get a joint contract. These are problems for ALPA my friend, hence the award has not been sent to the company. If they weren't we wouldn't be having this conversation, no matter what NWA or UA think.

What arbitration are you guys going to snatch us back into? Is that like "That will go on your permanent record young man!"

BAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH

 

[EastUS]

I hoped you would step into that. Two problems-1) This pilot group was already so fed up that they just needed one more thing to get the ball rolling for decert. 2) The award was so lopsided that many pilots are willing to stick with what they have rather than get a joint contract. These are problems for ALPA my friend, hence the award has not been sent to the company. If they weren't we wouldn't be having this conversation, no matter what NWA or UA think.

What arbitration are you guys going to snatch us back into? Is that like "That will go on your permanent record young man!"

BAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH

We'd better watch it here in Delta House...It seems that we're on Double Secret Alpo Probation!!!!

 

[exB717Flyer]

And AWA guys are not being led by the noses?

Our MEC didn't withhold the arbitration transcripts from us and they didn't give us false expectations prior to Nicolau ruling.

Everyone knows there is a problem with the award,...

It's more accurate to say, "everyone knows the Easties have a problem with the Award and thus they're causing a problem for everyone".

... but your MEC says we are not going to do anything."WE are right, we are right, we are right!" That's kind of like trying to cross a busy road, with huge trucks, and saying " the law says I have the right-of-way, I'll just walk right on across, they will stop". That might make you dead right.

You forget that the EC thinks we're "right" as well. The only reason they're humoring y'all is because of the decert threat.

 

[Pi brat]

Our MEC didn't withhold the arbitration transcripts from us and they didn't give us false expectations prior to Nicolau ruling.It's more accurate to say, "everyone knows the Easties have a problem with the Award and thus they're causing a problem for everyone".You forget that the EC thinks we're "right" as well. The only reason they're humoring y'all is because of the decert threat.

You have said the MEC not sending full transcripts about a thousand times, I get it! Maybe they should have, but by the time it got to arbitration it didn't matter. The real lost opportunity was in negotiations. The arbitrator was supposed to look at the facts of both cases and make a fair determination. You think he did, I don't, and we will never agree on that.

What we have to do now is to figure out how to go forward. When I say we have a problem, I'm not talking about the fair part, I'm talking about people so angry that they will never vote for a contract and are taking steps to leave the union. Those are problems for ALPA, east and west pilots and no amount of tough talk from either side will fix the problem.

 

[AWA320]

You have said the MEC not sending full transcripts about a thousand times, I get it! Maybe they should have, but by the time it got to arbitration it didn't matter. The real lost opportunity was in negotiations. The arbitrator was supposed to look at the facts of both cases and make a fair determination. You think he did, I don't, and we will never agree on that.

What we have to do now is to figure out how to go forward. When I say we have a problem, I'm not talking about the fair part, I'm talking about people so angry that they will never vote for a contract and are taking steps to leave the union. Those are problems for ALPA, east and west pilots and no amount of tough talk from either side will fix the problem.

Pi, before you make the statement that you will never agree on that maybe you should read the case your team put on and the contempt they displayed on a daily basis.

 

[Pi brat]

Pi, before you make the statement that you will never agree on that maybe you should read the case your team put on and the contempt they displayed on a daily basis.

AWA I don't care what my team put out, I can look at the award and decide for myself it is not fair/just/human/practical, whatever you want to call it. Was it the arbitraitors job to punish the US pilots because they didn't present a good case, or was he supposed to come up with a fair agreement? That is my opinion, you will not change it, just as I won't change yours. I will tell you this, even though you call me a sheep, I never thought our proposal would pass the arbitraitor without some modification. I just didn't think it would be so bad, and without any fences for east and west. Your senior guys got hurt on that one, as a lot of guys in the top 1000-1500 have their finger on the button to bid PHX.

We all really need to stop the name calling and fighting over what is fair-it will get us no where. This award has caused problems for the pilots, ALPA, the company and all its employees. You can scream all day that is the east pilots fault for causing the problems, but that won't fix them.

 

[AWA320]

AWA I don't care what my team put out, I can look at the award and decide for myself it is not fair/just/human/practical, whatever you want to call it. Was it the arbitraitors job to punish the US pilots because they didn't present a good case, or was he supposed to come up with a fair agreement? That is my opinion, you will not change it, just as I won't change yours. I will tell you this, even though you call me a sheep, I never thought our proposal would pass the arbitraitor without some modification. I just didn't think it would be so bad, and without any fences for east and west. Your senior guys got hurt on that one, as a lot of guys in the top 1000-1500 have their finger on the button to bid PHX.

We all really need to stop the name calling and fighting over what is fair-it will get us no where. This award has caused problems for the pilots, ALPA, the company and all its employees. You can scream all day that is the east pilots fault for causing the problems, but that won't fix them.

Let me put right out there for you, with the exception of Sheep I don't call names. That little gem is reserved for you east folk. Now in my opinion the award was more than fair and you were in no way punished. The facts spoke for themselves Pi, we were growing and you were shrinking. 33% of your pilot force was unemployed on the day this thing was announced and had absolutly no expectation of ever returning to USAirways. There was no and I mean no bankruptcy exit plan except to liquidate as both Parker and Kirby both have stated publically.

Now we can sit here and go back and forth day after day and never get to the meat of the situation and that is a contract going forward.

Yes your reps have misled you and they have done an awful job of manageing your expectations! Now you can waste time and more of your money and in the end it will be the east pilots that ultimatly suffer.

Time to stop the suffering Pi and stop following fools to your demise... Alpa no Alpa it's all the same if the same people are in office, fix your problem. You don't tear down the house if you have a leaky pipe, you fix the pipe and save the house...

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

The reps have misled the masses and now they are so hung up on the nic award that they don't want to get you guys a raise or better work rules. WTFO!!

Not to mention the lies about getting you "equal pay for equal work." Lame! Parker will not give you jack. You want a new pay rate get a new contract. As he famously stated "you get what you negotiate." And since you don't get to negotiate separately he's content to let you guys swing until LOA 93 expires no matter what union you bring you don't get out of that gem til its done.

A lot of us use to think it would be nice to have your JNC work on things with us. We used to think that because you once had an industry leading contract maybe we could work together to get to the top.

Now all we see is a bunch of idiots holding its pilot group hostage to save face.

F**k it! Somebody needs to shake your MEC and wake them up. Somebody needs to tell them: "Its Over! Get Over It and get a better contract and help save the airline and the industry instead of destroying 40,000 peoples' jobs because of your arrogance."

We recall our guys on average I'd say every 6 months or so maybe you all need a regime change too.

 

[USA320Pilot]

AWA320,

AWA320 said: "East you seem to keep missing the clue, there is nothing to work out except a contract. The arbitration is over there is no second bite at the apple on this"

USA320Pilot comments: Wrong. The EC, the US Airways MEC, and the Company recognize the problems with the Nicolau Award. You and your MEC can keep "blowing smoke" and everybody else understands the need to work in the "real world" to find "realistic solutions."

Here are the facts from ALPA EVP Paul Rice, which were presetned to the US Airways MEC in "open session" yesterday:

1. There is no timetable as to when or if the EC will ever release the list to the Company.

2. The EC Resolution states that the merger process was followed, that ALPA remains neutral, and we need to work in the "real world" to find "realistic solutions."

3. The intent of the EC Resolution and the Rice Committee is to now move the process of "finding solutions" to this issue forward. And if any party is unwilling to engage in this process, then we'll move forward in negotiations "without them." Another words, without the people who do not abide by the EC resolutions.

4. The JNC talks will go forward, but not in the "traditional sense," and may include many different variations that we have not yet even considered.

AWA320, you can whine all you want, but the EC, US Airways MEC/NC, and the Company are moving forward with or without the AWA pilots. It's your choice to participate or not because as it stands now the parties above are going to negotiate a new agreement that has either a separate contract & separate operations or a joint contract & spearate operations.

The only party to not agree to work per the two EC resolutions regarding the Nicolau Award is the AWA MEC. At this point with suitable options available the vast majority of the East pilots could care less what the AWA MEC and their pilots do because it was their choice not to abide by EC's resolutions.

Regards,

USA320Pilot