which will it be? the ta or term sheet?

[JABORD]

The judge will impose the term sheet. Still a 6 year deal and worse than what we will be voting on.
Both bad deals but you have to choose the better of the two. The judge does not pick and choose which articles stay and which go. Its the whole package or nothing. Tough decision but we are in a bad spot no matter how you look at it.

Once again, an important factor is being left out. What has been stated is that a hell no will provide us (hopefully a better Union) to have the ability to continue to negotiate and try to gain back some of our losses WITHIN THE 6 YEAR TIMEFRAME. A yes vote LOCKS US IN for the 6 years.

 

[TWU informer]

At one time you were able to see it on jetnet back when we were voting on the t/a. Once we voted it down, the company felt you didn't need access to the PF info so they pulled it. Clear example of how they manage our information. I believe a call to AA Pension dept. is required to get the numbers. I agree with Informer, these questions need answers but let's be realistic as to how much weight we put into this. When I inquired on my amount, I was surprised to hear that the company match amount didn't equal my amount. Company match was less. Was told their earnings didn't do as well.(thought that strange) Either way, if the match were to be paid out, it would be a gift. I don't expect it, I know if the program goes away I'll get my monies back. Anyone concerned that the refund should determine whether they vote hell no or not shouldn't sell themselves for so cheap.

I gave the answer on how to obtain your balance.
Instantly another direction is posted.

I am not assuming this is the way to get it. I did it myself.
Therefore this is a fact based answer, not specuation or what used to be. I did this last week.

Call J P Morgan 1-800-345-2345,

You have to navigate the voice menu and press zero to get a representative.

Give them your information and they will research and get back you within a few days.

 

[Hopeful]

Once again, an important factor is being left out. What has been stated is that a hell no will provide us (hopefully a better Union) to have the ability to continue to negotiate and try to gain back some of our losses WITHIN THE 6 YEAR TIMEFRAME. A yes vote LOCKS US IN for the 6 years.

The problem is..if the company can impose the term sheets if the judge agrees,,,,then why can't the 6 year TERM be imposed?

 

[TWU informer]

The problem is..if the company can impose the term sheets if the judge agrees,,,,then why can't the 6 year TERM be imposed?

It will be, but section 6 negotiations begin and that puts us in the position to get back into the Railway Labor Act and out of Bankruptcy Court.

If you vote YES, you are agreeing to 6 years. If abbrogation takes place you have not agreed.

In other words, Vote Yes Negotations are over, Vote NO Negotiations continue even after abbrogation.
It is that simple. And something TWU is not telling you.
TWU keeps using FEAR terms like contract cancelled, contract voided, when in fact the Term Sheet is imposed and then negotiations continue attempting to obtain consensual agreement. Don't be FEARED into your decision, make sure you have all the facts, then decide.

In other words, abboragation means temporary imposed terms until a consensual agreement is reached.
If AA wants to burn the place down by continuation of this plan, then we cannot stop them.
But we do not have to agree to it.

 

[CMH_GSE]

Hopeful, the company can impose the terms on us if the judge rejects our contracts BUT and this is actually maybe the ONLY reason to vote no, we then go back to section 6 negotiations e en though the terms are imposed.

My problem with that is, ok , we are in negotiations, what incentive does the company have to improve anything for us anytime soon?

We lose either way, just a matter of how much we lose.

Again, everyone has a different situation, I don't begrudge anyone voting yes or no.
I will decide which way I will vote WHEN I HAVE ALL THE INFO, not before.

 

[JABORD]

I gave the answer on how to obtain your balance.
Instantly another direction is posted.

I am not assuming this is the way to get it. I did it myself.
Therefore this is a fact based answer, not specuation or what used to be. I did this last week.

Call J P Morgan 1-800-345-2345,

You have to navigate the voice menu and press zero to get a representative.

Give them your information and they will research and get back you within a few days.

Take a deep breath pal. OK now read my post. No one attacking your wisdom and your info is appreciated. My reply wasn't to you and just passing on how it went for me.(whew!)

 

[Hopeful]

Informer, CMH....
I understand the judge's powers..I was just not too clear on the term length of the contract NOT being part of the TERM...
Also, believe me,,I am in no way in favor of this t/a or the term sheets .
I hope I didn't not give the impression I am buying into the TWU fear factor.

But the fear I do have is that there are those who will believe the bs rhethoric already being spewed by the TWU leadership that the LBO will be better than the term sheets if imposed...What a union.

All anyone has to do is read the term sheets "AND THAT IS AS BAD AS IT GETS!"

 

[JABORD]

It will be, but section 6 negotiations begin and that puts us in the position to get back into the Railway Labor Act and out of Bankruptcy Court.

If you vote YES, you are agreeing to 6 years. If abbrogation takes place you have not agreed.

In other words, Vote Yes Negotations are over, Vote NO Negotiations continue even after abbrogation.
It is that simple. And something TWU is not telling you.
TWU keeps using FEAR terms like contract cancelled, contract voided, when in fact the Term Sheet is imposed and then negotiations continue attempting to obtain consensual agreement. Don't be FEARED into your decision, make sure you have all the facts, then decide.

In other words, abboragation means temporary imposed terms until a consensual agreement is reached.
If AA wants to burn the place down by continuation of this plan, then we cannot stop them.
But we do not have to agree to it.

Good job. Thanks.

 

[CMH_GSE]

Hopeful, I guess it depends on your perspective when deciding on if LBO is better than terms imposed.
TWU has stated the LBO is better, probably because it saves several thousand jobs and to those whose jobs would be saved, it is clearly better.
To the folks that are in no danger of losing a job, LBO may clearly be worse for them.

I will wait to see the sum of all the info before deciding for myself.

 

[JABORD]

Hopeful, the company can impose the terms on us if the judge rejects our contracts BUT and this is actually maybe the ONLY reason to vote no, we then go back to section 6 negotiations e en though the terms are imposed.

My problem with that is, ok , we are in negotiations, what incentive does the company have to improve anything for us anytime soon?

We lose either way, just a matter of how much we lose.

Again, everyone has a different situation, I don't begrudge anyone voting yes or no.
I will decide which way I will vote WHEN I HAVE ALL THE INFO, not before.

If history is any example, when AA began making money after we signed multi -year agreements, labor asked for "shared gain "and was told "tough s**t, you have your contract. Some industry analysts are indicating airlines are on the upswing and quality representation will learn from previous examples and find ways to gain leverage for us as the economy picks up.Indications are that could be as soon as a year or two from now.

 

[Birdman]

Give them your information and they will research and get back you within a few days.

They will mail you a copy of your balance on request.

 

[AA89]

They will mail you a copy of your balance on request.

Seems it depends on who answers the phone there. I called JP Morgan and was told to call AA H.R. AA H.R. Told me to call back JP Morgan. I did and was told, as Informer said, that they would research it and call me back. 7 to 10 days. I asked about them mailing the info to me and they said no. They could email me a notice that they had the info but I would still have to call for the numbers.
What a cluster ......

 

[TWU informer]

Seems it depends on who answers the phone there. I called JP Morgan and was told to call AA H.R. AA H.R. Told me to call back JP Morgan. I did and was told, as Informer said, that they would research it and call me back. 7 to 10 days. I asked about them mailing the info to me and they said no. They could email me a notice that they had the info but I would still have to call for the numbers.
What a cluster ......

They told me 7-10 days and then called me back that afternoon.
They left a voice mail, I called back the next morning and was given all the information

It isn't as bad as it appears, just you wait and see.

 

[exs]

I sit here and ask myself, why are we even voting on this? The APA and APFA state that these terms are unacceptable. What makes ours acceptable? or the LBO acceptable?.Well I would like a to make a point. How much money would the union save in lawyer fees if this gets voted in? Would Little and his cronies have to live under these terms? not!! Who will they blame if it gets voted in? YOU!! and state you guys accepted these terms. IMO it does not matter what the LBO is, I am voting NO!! THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!! but he is "GOING TO FIGHT LIKE HELL!!"

 

[Vortilon]

Where do you find the amount in your prefunding account?

They called me back about 3 weeks later with the info. I had already forgot about the request.