which will it be? the ta or term sheet?

[Overspeed]

Well call me crazy but I will follow the legal precedent and what the attorneys say. as I said the most likely outcome is that they will impose the last best offer I did not say beyond a shadow of a doubt but the NWA Vs AFA case certainly gives you a legal bases to stand on and is the most likely outcome.

That article is old and has not been updated. It was written in 2007, after the Northwest decision being discussed but before the Frontier decision in 2009. In Frontier the district court, on an appeal from a bankruptcy court ruling, held that: ”under the regime established by section 1113, proposals and supporting disclosures made by a party after the rejection hearing has begun may not form the basis for concluding whether the section 1113 standard has been satisfied, except, perhaps, where the parties expressly agree that they may be considered." In American's bankruptcy case, Judge Lane said in open court that he intends to follow Frontier and will not consider the later proposals.

Like I said, vote no and test your theories but Judge Lane has already stated that your legal assessment is not going to be followed. Rejection will mean implementation of the March 22, 2012 Term Sheet.

 

[TWU informer]

Well call me crazy but I will follow the legal precedent and what the attorneys say. as I said the most likely outcome is that they will impose the last best offer I did not say beyond a shadow of a doubt but the NWA Vs AFA case certainly gives you a legal bases to stand on and is the most likely outcome.

But your lawyer has to be paid to request that happen or it will not be granted. Can you imagine the attorney knowing the facts, and being ask to not request LOB to be imposed to save the face of an ignorant Union Leader?

This Union is so worthless there is no longer a description of anything lower or as low as to describe it.

 

[TWU informer]

That article is old and has not been updated. It was written in 2007, after the Northwest decision being discussed but before the Frontier decision in 2009. In Frontier the district court, on an appeal from a bankruptcy court ruling, held that: ”under the regime established by section 1113, proposals and supporting disclosures made by a party after the rejection hearing has begun may not form the basis for concluding whether the section 1113 standard has been satisfied, except, perhaps, where the parties expressly agree that they may be considered." In American's bankruptcy case, Judge Lane said in open court that he intends to follow Frontier and will not consider the later proposals.

Like I said, vote no and test your theories but Judge Lane has already stated that your legal assessment is not going to be followed. Rejection will mean implementation of the March 22, 2012 Term Sheet.

Please name the hearing date and paragraph of your claim. I want to read it for myself.
If that was said in open court by Judge Lane then you can produce the proof.
Why would he accept the later March 22, 2012 term sheet and not the last best offer?
Both are distant from the original term sheet. I think you are a common LIAR.

And even if the TWU so called "facts" are true, no contract at all is still a better position than the 6 year POS you are supporting.


Never would I vote YES for such garbage.

 

[limit]

Lets put aside the legal issues that have been debated here as far as, if the ask or
if final offer, is the one imposed by the company if we vote No.

The company by making this final offer is in fact admitting that this contract offer
is one they are comfortable with and one that will help their business plan and help them successfully exit bankruptcy and beyond.

Yet if we do not agree to it ,we will be punished by having more onerous terms imposed upon us ( at least this is their claim ).

Why?

Will our voting no change their business plan,and require more givebacks for them to survive?

Being treated like an insolent child is really exposing AA management's for who they truly are, and what they think of their workforce.

 

[TWU informer]

Lets put aside the legal issues that have been debated here as far as, if the ask or
if final offer, is the one imposed by the company if we vote No.

The company by making this final offer is in fact admitting that this contract offer
is one they are comfortable with and one that will help their business plan and help them successfully exit bankruptcy and beyond.

Yet if we do not agree to it ,we will be punished by having more onerous terms imposed upon us ( at least this is their claim ).

Why?

Will our voting no change their business plan,and require more givebacks for them to survive?

Being treated like an insolent child is really exposing AA management's for who they truly are, and what they think of their workforce.

Exactly, there is no legal basis for the TWU Circus, and does anyone believe that once the NO VOTE is counted that the TWU will not argue the same poiint in court? Or at least should?

 

[787nightmare]

Lets put aside the legal issues that have been debated here as far as, if the ask or
if final offer, is the one imposed by the company if we vote No.

The company by making this final offer is in fact admitting that this contract offer
is one they are comfortable with and one that will help their business plan and help them successfully exit bankruptcy and beyond.

Yet if we do not agree to it ,we will be punished by having more onerous terms imposed upon us ( at least this is their claim ).

Why?

Will our voting no change their business plan,and require more givebacks for them to survive?

Being treated like an insolent child is really exposing AA management's for who they truly are, and what they think of their workforce.

X2
Excellent points.
Like Informer said, the TWU has tapped out.

 

[CMH_GSE]

Please name the hearing date and paragraph of your claim. I want to read it for myself.
If that was said in open court by Judge Lane then you can produce the proof.
Why would he accept the later March 22, 2012 term sheet and not the last best offer?
Both are distant from the original term sheet. I think you are a common LIAR.

And even if the TWU so called "facts" are true, no contract at all is still a better position than the 6 year POS you are supporting.


Never would I vote YES for such garbage.

Yeah, we get it, you would rather vote in favor even WORSE garbage!

Tell you what, you get Judge Lane to produce a signed statement by him, stating that if we vote "no", AA can only impose the LBO and I will burn up the phone lines yelling "hell no" into the phone from the time voting opens until it closes. Until then, I'm a "yes" and it's not even close.

 

[TWU informer]

Pilots and F/As aren't getting slammed on jobs like we are. I don't think anyone has figured out how to outsource pilot jobs to China yet...

Really? what crap are you reading?

The F/A's are being asked to give 2300 jobs.
You can make crap up all day but until you produce FACTS, you are nothing more than another TWU Liar.

 

[TWU informer]

Yeah, we get it, you would rather vote in favor even WORSE garbage!

Tell you what, you get Judge Lane to produce a signed statement by him, stating that if we vote "no", AA can only impose the LBO and I will burn up the phone lines yelling "hell no" into the phone from the time voting opens until it closes. Until then, I'm a "yes" and it's not even close.

No, I owe you nothing. And screaming in the phone like a child means nothing but that you are a fool. You are entitled to your YES vote if that is what you please. Just don't post falsehoods and fear as your basis. And when you find the rest of profession has been driven down by your vote, and the USAir merger does happen, don't be on here complaining about how you canont find a replacement job.

You are only one.

I voted YES on the T/A and I know many others that did as well, it still FAILED, as will this if given a fair vote.

One or Two YES votes are nothing.

 

[AA89]

limit, on 01 May 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:


Lets put aside the legal issues that have been debated here as far as, if the ask or
if final offer, is the one imposed by the company if we vote No.

The company by making this final offer is in fact admitting that this contract offer
is one they are comfortable with and one that will help their business plan and help them successfully exit bankruptcy and beyond.

Yet if we do not agree to it ,we will be punished by having more onerous terms imposed upon us ( at least this is their claim ).

Why?

Will our voting no change their business plan,and require more givebacks for them to survive?

Being treated like an insolent child is really exposing AA management's for who they truly are, and what they think of their workforce.

Exactly, there is no legal basis for the TWU Circus, and does anyone believe that once the NO VOTE is counted that the TWU will not argue the same poiint in court? Or at least should?

I like the logic. We have a chance if the judge is actually interested in logic and not just rubber stamping anything the company puts in front of him.

 

[TWU informer]

I like the logic. We have a chance if the judge is actually interested in logic and not just rubber stamping anything the company puts in front of him.

Give this a NO VOTE and I assure you Levine and the TWU will then be submitting the same arguement that we are presenting about imposing the LBO and then allowing negotiations to continue. the Judge needs all Unions closer to consensual agreements not going backwards. He will not approve a Plan of Reorganization with labor unrest still present.

We are just having to witness another example of FEAR and MANIPULATION by the most docile Union on AA property and the industry.

Making Union Members pay to keep others a job, while still allowing the future outsource of same work the jobs that are saved will be doing is a paradox and should be considered criminal activity. TWU Blasted AMFA for 5 years for what they are now not only in favor of, but peddling with all the tactics they have available.

Somone needs to make a recording of the VOTE YES RALLY this Saturday, it will be priceless. Audio will do, but better yet Video.

By the Way, I get the feeling Bob Owens must have suffered another gag order on this matter. Too Bad, we need Bob to speak up.

 

[TWU informer]

Has anyone thought to inquire as to who is conducting and counting the electronic balloting?
Does this concern any of you?

 

[AA89]

Has anyone thought to inquire as to who is conducting and counting the electronic balloting?
Does this concern any of you?

It should.
The RLA is slanted against labor
The BK laws are slanted against labor
The TWU is a dues collecting machine
So why should the procedure to count our votes be trusted?
I'm not sure how to guarantee it is fair

 

[Zom JFK]

Has anyone thought to inquire as to who is conducting and counting the electronic balloting?
Does this concern any of you?

An electronic vote means the LBO is a done deal, if thats what the company/twu want. Just like 2003. What a sad joke that the twu allows this. When you voted yes on the last TA was it on the computer or telephone?

 

[CMH_GSE]

Has anyone thought to inquire as to who is conducting and counting the electronic balloting?
Does this concern any of you?

Why no... because it will be fixed in my favor