which will it be? the ta or term sheet?

[Duke787]

The contract is pretty clear we get it all back + interest.

Isn't the contract in the process of being gutted, we have no idea what AA is taking away or what the TWU is negotiating away for something else.

 

[AANOTOK]

Isn't the contract in the process of being gutted, we have no idea what AA is taking away or what the TWU is negotiating away for something else.

The prefunding and interest is yours and cannot be touched regardless what happens in bankruptcy, PERIOD! Now the match is a whole different story and what is being fought over.

 

[Overspeed]

The "last and best" offer will be imposed if this is voted down. Everyone needs to block out a few hours and read a legal interpretation of the Chapter 11 USC (not from the TWU) and quit listening to company/company-union shills.

That's not true. The LBO is what was negotiated as a requirement of the 1113c process. The 3/22/12 term sheet is what has been submitted in court and has provisions that if the consensual agreement is voted down items like the even small things like the 1.5% annual raises are not available over the six year term. The TWU has the ability to continue collective bargaining after the judge rules on abrogating the existing CBA.

Jim Little stated that the membership would get the right to vote on the LBO but I doubt the TWU will say this is a great deal however they have said that a consensual agreement outside BK is most often than not the better option. That is not to say that a higher rate of pay could be had after BK but that may be a while and not a matter of months. It has been almost two years since the July 2010 TA and our TWU committee had not achieved much prior to the BK filing.

Vote no and we will most likely see a M&E that looks like the 3/22/12 term sheet very soon.

 

[Overspeed]

The motion is to abrogate and modify, read the term sheet and motion, you are deceiving the membership.

The RLA states Section 6 negotiations commence 60 days prior tot he amendable date, AA has changed the amendable date to 2018, there will be no section 6 negotiations taking place.

Which term sheet gets implemented? The one in the original filing or the new LBO? I understood the motion to abrogate allows the company to implement the original ask. Many believe on this blog that if they vote down the LBO they get it anyways. Is that what you understood during the US BK's?

 

[FWAAA]

Which term sheet gets implemented? The one in the original filing or the new LBO? I understood the motion to abrogate allows the company to implement the original ask. Many believe on this blog that if they vote down the LBO they get it anyways. Is that what you understood during the US BK's?

When the court granted NW's motion to abrogate its FA contract, NW sought to impose its original ask, but the court instead told NW it could only impose its last best offer - the rejected TA. I do not know if there's bankruptcy law that prohibits imposing the original ask, but the NW bankruptcy court made it clear what NW was permitted to do in that case.

 

[TWU informer]

When the court granted NW's motion to abrogate its FA contract, NW sought to impose its original ask, but the court instead told NW it could only impose its last best offer - the rejected TA. I do not know if there's bankruptcy law that prohibits imposing the original ask, but the NW bankruptcy court made it clear what NW was permitted to do in that case.

Why vote yes?

 

[Hopeful]

They may not have the stomach for war but whether they fight back or not the company will destroy their lives, at least if we fight we have a chance. Can you really afford another 30% paycut? Figure by the time you add in what you need to put in your 401K to replace the DB pension, the fact your medical will double as well as your deductable, what you have to put away for retiree medical, inflation on everything you buy between now and 2018, or 2022?, and 30% is probaly too low. This concession is on top of but even deeper than what we gave up in 2003.

Again, I am not disageeing with you. But as you stated in an earlier post......As long as there is CSing, laptops, TV's and OT as a priority........Sadly, we will not see too many willing to fight.

 

[Hopeful]

Why vote yes?

Just ask Little!

 

[Frank Szabo]

Just ask Little!

The jobs you save may be the internationals'.

 

[iluvaa]

Well Jim little said we would have the results of our voting on the lbo 2 weeks from today and as of yet I have seen nothing. twu supporters tell me again why we should support this union I really dont get it. :angry: :angry:

 

[enough already]

Well Jim little said we would have the results of our voting on the lbo 2 weeks from today and as of yet I have seen nothing. twu supporters tell me again why we should support this union I really dont get it. :angry: :angry:

"You're out of order, Brother!"
"Our hands are tied, Brother."
"They can do that , Brother."

 

[Frank Szabo]

That's not true. The LBO is what was negotiated as a requirement of the 1113c process. The 3/22/12 term sheet is what has been submitted in court and has provisions that if the consensual agreement is voted down items like the even small things like the 1.5% annual raises are not available over the six year term. The TWU has the ability to continue collective bargaining after the judge rules on abrogating the existing CBA.

Jim Little stated that the membership would get the right to vote on the LBO but I doubt the TWU will say this is a great deal however they have said that a consensual agreement outside BK is most often than not the better option. That is not to say that a higher rate of pay could be had after BK but that may be a while and not a matter of months. It has been almost two years since the July 2010 TA and our TWU committee had not achieved much prior to the BK filing.

Vote no and we will most likely see a M&E that looks like the 3/22/12 term sheet very soon.

I understand perfectly well why you're saying that but I'd prefer to follow an attorney's advice in this case - you aren't one of those. FWAAA left a reply re: this very thing - read and understand.

Most of AA's workers have no intention of helping the twu international retain any power.

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

Can the union put a "check off" request in with the contract language being mailed to my house. Would it be to much to ask to put it in a self addressed stamped envelope so I can get it back to them ASAP.

 

[TWU informer]

There are many different types of leadership and some dictators believe that leadership comes from threats and/or fear of worse conditions. Leading by fear is probably the easiest way to get people to do something, especially mass populations which can turn to mob mentality. Holding together the Union and a Profession is no laughing matter and it is no job for the weak.


Ask yourself in the coming weeks.

Am I being lead by fear?
Am I making a decision based on fear?
Do my fellow wokers talk in terms of fear.
Does the company use fear when communicating?

If we let fear take control of us we will never accomplish anything. It is very important to conquer our fears no matter what that fear maybe. Some people learn how to conquer there fears better then other people so that's why you see some people who became president and some people who are scared to do anything or try anything new. It is important to think about how much we let fear control us everyday of our life.

Being fearful of the unknown usually has nothing to do with reality and everything to do with insecurity. If the outcome of facing your fears is unknown then why be afraid? What do you really have to lose if you take the risk? Making a list of all the possible outcomes can quickly reveal how irrational most fears really are.

Most of the time our fearful feelings are nothing more than a conditioned responses to negative assumptions. By changing our perspective and encouraging our imaginations in a more positive direction we can move beyond those feelings and embrace amazing new opportunities and experiences. Don’t allow fear to rob you of that.

Don’t allow FEAR to control your life or your job and hold you back. Every breakthrough you’ll ever have in your life and your job will require you to overcome FEAR. It’s the enemy. It’s hiding in your mind right now making up excuses for why you can’t go forward. It’s telling you why it won’t work for you. It’s creating excuse after excuse of why you have to stay where you’re at instead of stepping out toward your dreams…

 

[Lloyd Grey]

I don't think it matters how we vote, see my post in the thread about TWU withholding info.

Think of it this way. An overwhelming NO vote will keep you and I out of a 6 year obligation.


Vote NO. Then we can a Card Check / Election to replace TWU with Teamsters or AMFA, and wait until the new company emerges from bankruptcy to negotiate a new contract.