which will it be? the ta or term sheet?
- Thread starter dfw gen
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But you have to live with it till 2018, whereas if we reject it we continue to negotiate.
There are some improvements but not enough to make it worth accepting for the next six or more years.
The International deliberately dragged out negotiations by never putting forward any real effort for a release. Those of us who were pushing for it were rebuffed time and time again. The first time we agreed to ask the International told the mediator that we are asking to be released but we really dont want to be released. If the contract is abrogated I would expect the TWU to put maximum effort into getting a deal , including demanding a release if the company stonewalled because members would pay only as long as they felt like it. In other words they would really have to work for the members even if iot costs them their A-5 travel privileges.
We are at the bottom of the industry, if any group stands a chance of not getting their contract rejected its M&R, but we have to agree to freezing the pension, which is in there, retireee medical, in there but they are also grabbing our prefunding match-unacceptable, and allowing them to outsource at the same rates as other carriers, the new langauge allows more than other carriers, but in return we should get similar pay, not in there, similar benefits, holidays, vacation, sick time etc, not in there, and equity and a better 401k match.
Even if they do abrogate our deal we should not settle before the Pilots. After the company settles with the Pilots they may be more reasonable, they even admitted that our deal was "rediculously bad" but they would not enhance it because then all the other groups would want the same.
Remember this the International stands to lose more with an abrogation than we do and they do not have to live under it.
As far as jobs there is no System or station protection any more. They can outsource up to 35% above current practices which is around 10%, so that makes it 45%, if Rolls opts out of Tasel it goes to 55%. There is no cap on Eagle ASMs. So if the company cuts a deal with the pilots that puts all domestic flying under Eagle they could pretty much dump everyone except the top 1000 or so since the widebodies are to be outsourced as well.
There really is no reason to vote yes. Sure they are promising to keep jobs but then why still have the language that allows it to be outsourced?
By the way eagle is TWU.
Hopeful
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so it has happened, like he said they overstepped their wants.
AA had over $4 billion when they enterred bk, has that ever happened before?
Our mechanics are at the bottom of the industry and have agreed to the terms thaty could be considered onerous, the pension, retiree medical, work rules that require more staff than competitors, in all the other areas we lag the industry. lets take on example, vacation. AA is the only carrier where new employees only get one week of vacation for the first five years and we are a week behind everyone else up till 30 years where we pass some carriers with a max of six weeks. so from one to thirty years we have a week less than everyone else, so we may pass others after 30 but how many years are left? most dont put in more than fourty years, so over a 40 career the AA guy would get at least 20 less weeks than anyone else, he would have to put in 60 years to break even, now they want to eliminate the 6th week. holidays is another example, 5 days at half pay extra if worked, comes out to 20 hours extra pay for working al;l the holidays, compare that to even usair with 10 holidays at doubletime, that comes out to an extra 80 hours pay per year. So even if our wages were the same with just holidays and vacation we would have to work an extra three weeks a year for the same money.
AAs business plan calls for them earnig $3 billion a year in profits. nobody has presented such an ambitiouys plan in bk before that i know of.
AA did not go in with DIP either.
There are a lot of unique things about this BK.
Do you really think we should consider giving up $1.25 billion in concessions to a company that is looking at making $1.75 billion in profits without them?
No there is no negotaited contract, one is the term sheet they told the Judge they need to reorganize, the other includes some modifications that they hope will get them a 50% plus one vote. To say which one is worse depoends on how you look at it. Under either proposal you will not get a raise this year, under one its temporary until we negotiate a deal, under the other we are stuck with it for at least another six years. I prefer the temporary one. One allows 40% more outsourcing, the other 35% more, but the company isnt likely to be able to find places to do all that work that quickly anyway.
Well six years in addition to the four we already put in plus 4 more at the end would make it a 14 year contract.
There is an Early out but its funded by giving up the company match from prefunding. Some of the older guys have more in the fund than the early out would givve them.
Someone is selling you a bag of a magic beans.
Explain if the new amendable date is 2018 if the term sheet is implemented and Section 6 negotiations take place 60 days prior to the amendable date how are negotiations going to occur?
Explain if the new amendable date is 2018 if the term sheet is implemented and Section 6 negotiations take place 60 days prior to the amendable date how are negotiations going to occur?
Mechanics bumping to OSM lose their license pay and go to the OSM chart rate as well so you are probably looking at more than a $10hr cut. You have to remember OSMs are on a 10 year progression, so if you are a five year AMT you would go from a base pay of $27.20, plus licenses to the five year OSM rate of $13.51 and no licenses. Thats from $32.20 to $13.51, thats a cut of $18.61 an hour. My guess is most will quit, which is what AA wants. AA has been going around to A&P schools telling kids they are getting ready to hire. So you vote in the deal, find out you are losing $18.61 an hour, quit, they hire a kid from school at $9.58. They go from paying someone $32.20 to $9.58 and you voted in favor of it.Of course thats an extreme example, if you have 10 years or more you would only take an $11 hour cut in pay.
Frank Szabo
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I saw the show on TV also - it's a very interesting way of getting around the foundry/pattern/flask way of doing things.
I had seen the use of 3D paper printers and the laser/liquid plastic processes for making patterns before but this was interesting in that capillary action was used to suck the brass into the porous stainless pattern.
It's some of that stuff I'd love to play with. I see what they did and can see the potential of the process but no hands-on time at all.
I only take advice from experts that I hire. Never go by the advice of somebody elses lawyer
