West F/A's wants a seperate contract ?

[flytchick]

The WEST contract is FAR better - I have more flexibility and vacation days than East. I will happily keep my contract. And the East contract is up when? I would LOVE a SEPERATE CONTRACT.

 

[FlyUs]

US East could have come to the west and offered a compromise to a strict DOH integration. They never needed to get AFA permission to do the right thing. They instead chose to implement an integration that all but insures that the next hiccup in the growth plan flushes away a substantial number of AWA F/A, only to be eventually replaced by any remaining east furloughees.

What is truly sad is that everyone who tries to justify what the east did, is oblivious to it's ramifications for the west FA's. They seem to say, "Just ignore that knife [we stuck]in your back and let's work together (even though there is a good chance you won't be here to enjoy the fruit of your labor).

"DOH" has a nice ring and "Staple Job" sounds so cruel, but in this case they are practically the same thing. Funny, huh?

Are you a west flight attendant?

 

[hpflygirl]

For those of you who do not personally know the flight attendant who posts here as N903AW...let me fill you in. He is absolutely wonderful to work with. I would work with him every week...if he didn't work the 757 so much. The passengers LOVE him. He is extremely professional, yet definitely caters to our passengers.
When the merger was announced he was one of the first flight attendants at America West to show support for the new USAirways. He had new USAirways crew tags on his bags, he had the supportive "pins" on his blazer and apron. He was very proud of the the "east" wings he was given by an east supervisor. He spoke in a very positive manner about the east crews and the merger in general. He was one of the few flight attendants that gave me a positive feeling about this merger.
But as time went on, we saw our CEO continually sell us down the river...and many of us that commute ran into east crews and found some to be very, very nice...and some to be extremely condescending to us...gloating they will have no problem bumping us down when they move into PHX. (For the record...these flight attendants are mostly west coast commuters who are withing 5 years of retiring and no longer want the long PHL commute.)
Most of us have just gotten tired of being treated like the step-children in this merger. Every week it seems we are told we will be changing to yet another east way of doing things...primarily, we are told, because the company feels it's easier to re-train 2,800 flight attendants as opposed to 6,000. So every time we get a new bulletin for our manual, or another notice of some new training that's coming up for the integration to the east way of doing things, a lot of us feel shoved aside a little more. That includes N903AW.
We ALL want this merger to succeed. We ALL want a better contract. We ALL know about the concessions those of you on the east have had to make. We ALL know we are one of the lowest paid group of flight attendants in the industry. We ALL just want something that is fair to everyone.

 

[drrstrav]

Oh get over it, the west knew that issue was dead in the water before they ever started that fight. It only made them look desperate and scared. AWA gained plenty from this merger, they became a global airline instead of a mere regional carrier. You talk about your precious DOH, what about all of our f/a's that have 5-10 yrs, how many of your f/a's are going to fall ahead of them, you don't see them whining about it.

I find it amazing that there are people still crying over this. When US bought PSA and Piedmont the US f/a's never once considered arguing the DOH issue. In fact we gave Empire f/a's their seniority back because Piedmont stuck them at the bottom of their seniority list. We did the same with the Eastern f/a's when the Shuttle was taken over from Trump.

One more thing, UEast didn't create the DOH language in the Constitution and Bylaws of AFA International. All we did was fight to preserve it, you would of done the same.

You sang a different songs a few years ago about DOH when there was a possibility of the mergr with them. US East F/A's were rallying all the other airline to change the DOH wihin the AFA. Certainly, now when the shoe was on the other foot, you are adament about upholding the "language". I wonder what will be you "song" if US merges with NW? They are markedly more senior than most of you!!

 

[proudf/a]

You sang a different songs a few years ago about DOH when there was a possibility of the mergr with them. US East F/A's were rallying all the other airline to change the DOH wihin the AFA. Certainly, now when the shoe was on the other foot, you are adament about upholding the "language". I wonder what will be you "song" if US merges with NW? They are markedly more senior than most of you!!

I beg the differ. I have been around nearly 20 yrs, I do not recall the US f/a's rallying AFA an other carriers to change the DOH bylaws. I assume you are referring to the failed United deal? It wasn't fun to think about yet another senior airline moving into our seniority list, but we didn't cry about it.

If there is a NW merger, then we will once again move over an accept the fact that they are entitled to their time served.

This is the first time this has happened to AWA, we have been there done that wrote the book got the T-shirt. Its NO big deal, on a system wide scale.

For the people that squawk they are coming to PHX to bump you out, they are just ignorant. Unless they expand PHX big time, no one is getting into PHX anytime soon. I do think however, if they make it difficult for those who commute from the west coast to get to work, you may see a mad dash to get in. Other then that, those people are just trying to ruffle up your feathers.

The bottom line boils down too, it is what it is. We have a choice. Put this energy into fighting the company or continue to fuel the battle of East vs. West. Personally, I want the best of both worlds. There are a lot of advantanges in our contract that the AWA f/a's would enjoy. I have read your contract, there are a lot of advantanges we would enjoy. Why is that concept so hard for people to grasp?

 

[proudf/a]

For those of you who do not personally know the flight attendant who posts here as N903AW...let me fill you in. He is absolutely wonderful to work with. I would work with him every week...if he didn't work the 757 so much. The passengers LOVE him. He is extremely professional, yet definitely caters to our passengers.
When the merger was announced he was one of the first flight attendants at America West to show support for the new USAirways. He had new USAirways crew tags on his bags, he had the supportive "pins" on his blazer and apron. He was very proud of the the "east" wings he was given by an east supervisor. He spoke in a very positive manner about the east crews and the merger in general. He was one of the few flight attendants that gave me a positive feeling about this merger.
But as time went on, we saw our CEO continually sell us down the river...and many of us that commute ran into east crews and found some to be very, very nice...and some to be extremely condescending to us...gloating they will have no problem bumping us down when they move into PHX. (For the record...these flight attendants are mostly west coast commuters who are withing 5 years of retiring and no longer want the long PHL commute.)
Most of us have just gotten tired of being treated like the step-children in this merger. Every week it seems we are told we will be changing to yet another east way of doing things...primarily, we are told, because the company feels it's easier to re-train 2,800 flight attendants as opposed to 6,000. So every time we get a new bulletin for our manual, or another notice of some new training that's coming up for the integration to the east way of doing things, a lot of us feel shoved aside a little more. That includes N903AW.
We ALL want this merger to succeed. We ALL want a better contract. We ALL know about the concessions those of you on the east have had to make. We ALL know we are one of the lowest paid group of flight attendants in the industry. We ALL just want something that is fair to everyone.

How funny is this? We just got a 6 page bullentin that explains the recongfiguration of our Airbus fleet to match AWA's. The completely changed our galley pack outs to match yours. Our recurrent training program has been changed to mirror the West, however it doesn't. You know your 2 hr CBT you are required to do each quarter? They gave us the entire book to do at once which is an 8 hr program. We do not have computer labs in each crew base to do that. It has to be done at home on a day off. Our training center is in CLT so with the exception of those based there everyone else has to travel to CLT for training. It stands to reason, it would be cheaper to retrain 2,800 vs 6,000. It would also stands to reason, that UEast has a much larger fleet wouldn't it be cheaper to reconfigure AWA's to US? Obviously not. Please don't assume everything is catering to the East, we are on a daily basis getting new bullentins new procedures. Everytime you call someone about a issue, you get well its the America West way get use to it. Would be very interesting to know which policies and procedures of ours they have implemented on you.

As far as your CEO selling you up the river. Now you know why the East doesn't have any faith in management. When you are running a small regional carrier you can be buddies with your work groups. He is in a powerful position now, his reputation is on the line. He answers to the investors who made this possible, the shareholders and the creditors. He isn't concerned about the work groups.

 

[LCC_#1]

Every week it seems we are told we will be changing to yet another east way of doing things...primarily, we are told, because the company feels it's easier to re-train 2,800 flight attendants as opposed to 6,000. So every time we get a new bulletin for our manual, or another notice of some new training that's coming up for the integration to the east way of doing things, a lot of us feel shoved aside a little more.

Could you please list what procedures have changed for you? Are they service or safety?
Thank you.

 

[air747]

I still can't believe we are still discussing DOH, single contract, etc.....you need to put your energy where it belongs....UNITED for a good contract for us all!!!(EAST and WEST)....We are one airline, what don't some of you understand?...let's put the past behind and get a good contract...the company would love us to be divided so they can shove what they want down our throats...And what's so great about my contract?(west side)...haven't had a raise in 4years, call-in sick for a 4day trip get 4 sick occurances, and after calling in sick during a 12month calender on 2 4day trips, you get a letter about your availability!!!...ask the reserves about their abuse by sked...so please, let's top bickering and join together and FIGHT for the contract we ALL need and DESERVE!!!

 

[LCC_#1]

..We are one airline, what don't some of you understand?...let's put the past behind and get a good contract...the company would love us to be divided so they can shove what they want down our throats...

THANK YOU!!!

There is no how West negotiations are going or there;s no East negotiatitions due to a contract good thru 2012. This is a contract for ONE carrier!! US AIRWAYS!!

Do you guys on the West REALLY think THAT lowly of the East that we would vote to methodically keep our crappy contract to somehow SCREW you? WOW!! Don't forget we had the BEST contract at one time and the East no longer wants that distinction.

Read my signature below!!!
THATS THE REALITY OR YOU DESERVE TO GET LESS!!!

 

[BottomFeeder]

US East could have come to the west and offered a compromise to a strict DOH integration. They never needed to get AFA permission to do the right thing. They instead chose to implement an integration that all but insures that the next hiccup in the growth plan flushes away a substantial number of AWA F/A, only to be eventually replaced by any remaining east furloughees.

What is truly sad is that everyone who tries to justify what the east did, is oblivious to it's ramifications for the west FA's. They seem to say, "Just ignore that knife [we stuck]in your back and let's work together (even though there is a good chance you won't be here to enjoy the fruit of your labor).

"DOH" has a nice ring and "Staple Job" sounds so cruel, but in this case they are practically the same thing. Funny, huh?

luvn737,

You seem to think there is a FAIR solution and continue to blast the national merger policy. Please tell us all what is FAIR and give us your version of FAIR merger policy.

Talk about screwing and spitting, DP went to AFA and asked to change the national policy. Which was voted down 9 to 1. Whos best interest did DP have in mind?

As to a contract it is in everyones best interest to get the best possible contract. There is only one solution for this and it is everyone wins or everyone loses.

 

[luvn737s]

luvn737,

You seem to think there is a FAIR solution and continue to blast the national merger policy. Please tell us all what is FAIR and give us your version of FAIR merger policy.

When two airlines of similar seniority demographic merge, it very closely approximates a "relative seniority" type of integration, which is why, no doubt, the east says don't worry about it. That's the typr of mergers they have dealt with in the past. This merger is combines such disparate groups that a DOH methodology is patently unfair. It isn't about what happens today or tomarrow that makes it most unfair. I really don't think there will be a massive push into PHX

It's what happens when a furlough occurs. The AWA FA could have reasonably expected to return in short order once the crisis passed. Now, they could end up with a relatively minor inconvenience of a 6 or 12 month furlough, say costing many of them their careers. They will be placed behind those currently on furlough from the east. The west's efforts to secure a better contract are just one furlough away from being worthless to them, and they know it.

Any reasonable person could see that DOH places a unproportionate burden on the west FA's and I would suspect that DP felt that way too. But reasonable people were scarce during the time when a fair solution could have been crafted.

Yes it is water under the bridge and many have tried to move on and not dwell on the what-ifs and maybes. What else can you do? But their reluctance to help those who were only interested in selfishly protecting their own interests is certainly justified.

 

[SKY HIGH]

You sang a different songs a few years ago about DOH when there was a possibility of the mergr with them. US East F/A's were rallying all the other airline to change the DOH wihin the AFA.

sky high states: GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. The only possible merger a few years ago with U was with United. THEY, I repeat THEY wanted to disband AFA because they have alot of junior flight attendants under 10 years. It was an attempt to rid themselvs of DOH.
DATE OF HIRE has been in the by-laws for decades!!! And, it was in YOUR CONTRACT, way before the merger was announced with U.


Stating opinions only

luvn737,

You seem to think there is a FAIR solution and continue to blast the national merger policy. Please tell us all what is FAIR and give us your version of FAIR merger policy.

sky high states: Oooo, let me guess! Give American West flight attendants SENIORITY, THEY DIDNT EARN!!!




stating opinions only.

 

[proudf/a]

When two airlines of similar seniority demographic merge, it very closely approximates a "relative seniority" type of integration, which is why, no doubt, the east says don't worry about it. That's the typr of mergers they have dealt with in the past. This merger is combines such disparate groups that a DOH methodology is patently unfair. It isn't about what happens today or tomarrow that makes it most unfair. I really don't think there will be a massive push into PHX

It's what happens when a furlough occurs. The AWA FA could have reasonably expected to return in short order once the crisis passed. Now, they could end up with a relatively minor inconvenience of a 6 or 12 month furlough, say costing many of them their careers. They will be placed behind those currently on furlough from the east. The west's efforts to secure a better contract are just one furlough away from being worthless to them, and they know it.

Any reasonable person could see that DOH places a unproportionate burden on the west FA's and I would suspect that DP felt that way too. But reasonable people were scarce during the time when a fair solution could have been crafted.

Yes it is water under the bridge and many have tried to move on and not dwell on the what-ifs and maybes. What else can you do? But their reluctance to help those who were only interested in selfishly protecting their own interests is certainly justified.

Let me just throw something at you...What is the tables were turned, an AWA was the larger airline, and had f/a's that were involuntarily furloughed. Are you saying you would just ignore that, say too bad too sad for you? I highly doubt you would be that insensitive to your fellow coworkers that were put out of work. It is NOT fair under any circumstances for someone to gain seniority they haven't earned nor is it fair to someone to lose seniority they have earned. I have no problems taking my rightful place on the seniority list, if that is behind all 2800 of you then so be it. Back in 1988 all 2000 PSA f/a's were senior to me, in 1989 nearly 3000 Piedmont f/a's were sr to me. I lost 5000 numbers in a less then 2 yrs. Do you feel sorry for me? I doubt it. I certainly do not feel sorry for myself. That is what this industry is about.

 

[whodoiworkfor]

Can we save the emotions for the fight we are going to have soon with management to get the wages and benefits we deserve? It is time to unite folks and let this stuff go.....

 

[BottomFeeder]

It's what happens when a furlough occurs. The AWA FA could have reasonably expected to return in short order once the crisis passed. Now, they could end up with a relatively minor inconvenience of a 6 or 12 month furlough, say costing many of them their careers. They will be placed behind those currently on furlough from the east. The west's efforts to secure a better contract are just one furlough away from being worthless to them, and they know it.



All the more reason to fight for a better contract. That is were a no furlough clause would be the solution.

There is no more WEST or East anymore and from now on it's WE. So WE need a better contract!