Fleet Service Profit Sharing

[stormchaser]

If you think you have suffered take a look at our payscale. I understand you have taken cuts but if it wasnt for us on the west you wouldnt have a job today because the company would have gone under.

What a bunch of dung. The facts are that both airlines needed help and with outside investment and on the backs of the East employees (over $1 billion in concessions)made the deal real. Speaking of real and getting back to the subject the majority of the real profits are coming from the East. This is East profit sharing and until the two groups are one you guys are going to have to wait to get your piece of the pie, unless Dougie and his boys are nice enough to share some of their new found fortunes. <_<

 

[NevadaHP]

if you want it that way than dont take the profit from the HP side. Your getting profit from the HP side. If i knew the money im helping make goes into your selfish pockets then let profit sink this quarter

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

Guess you need to be educated:

QUOTE
How US Airways/America West merger got off the ground
Talks between airlines began in 2003, but didn't get serious until this year
Sunday, May 22, 2005

Glad to see all you can do is try to attack me and others instead of sticking to the topic at hand.

Guess you need to be educated:


hypocrite
One entry found for hypocrite.


Main Entry: hyp·o·crite
Pronunciation: 'hi-p&-"krit
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritEs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings
- hypocrite adjective

 

[AIRWOMAN]

if you want it that way than dont take the profit from the HP side. Your getting profit from the HP side. If i knew the money im helping make goes into your selfish pockets then let profit sink this quarter

PineyBob Posted Today, 05:15 PM

You would do well to look at the Q2 numbers a little closer. IIRC US East delivered $241 Million of the $305 million in profit.


There are 4 quarters of profit/loss to look at. Not just one.

Could that be the solution.......profit vs. loss for 2006.....east calculated separately from the west. Would both sides show a profit or a loss for the year when calculated separately? Then take into account the number of east employees vs. west. A lesser profit if calculated separately wouldn't go as far on the side with more employees. Or would it be more money in each individual's pocket if the profit was calculated without the separation?? Would the union, the company and employees actually go for something like that?

 

[AIRWOMAN]

Airwoman,

If you check you'll note that the lions share of profit was generated in the East no matter what quarter you select.

Some of that is due to the size differential and the balance is due to the revenue premium US has traditionally generated over the years.

That premium comes from the CP's who fly 100 or more segments per year, don't use Hefty bags for luggage and have an expectation of a level of service.

Did you know that in 2003 the top CP flew 468 segments on US Airways nand what is our reward for that kind of loyalty??

Read the thread regarding Mr Christ.

This about the employees, east and west, not just CP's and Hefty bags......about the employees loyalty to the airline, east and west.........about profit sharing......which there wouldn't be a profit sharing even available if CP's didn't fly and as you so call it, Hefty bag luggage fliers and all those in between......just like ALL the employees of the airline that have stuck it out over the years. It takes it all to keep flying, let alone post a profit.

My questions remain...........

 

[BoeingBoy]

Some very ballpark numbers in a second, but first some disclaimers.

- East contracts call for profit sharing calculated on US Group profits (before taxes and special items) and profit margin.

- I have no way to divide US Group numbers between the various parts - HP, US Inc (mainline), PSA, PDT, Material Services, etc.

- All that's available is the reported results for HP and US Inc, which don't include either the profits or revenues of the other divisions of Group. Thus, the profits and amount of the profit sharing "pie" is smaller than it would be using Group numbers. However, with no other way to separage the numbers, that's what I used although I'll also supply the numbers for US Group.

- These are ballpark numbers. There may be some special items that are not labeled as such (included in other items).

Now the numbers for the 1st 9 months. Obviously the 4th quarter results can and probably will change this.

HP $33M profit (before taxes and special items) with a 0.9% margin ($26M net profit on $2,764M revenue).
Profit Sharing = $2.6M

US $356M profit (ditto) with a 4.7% margin ($285M net profit on $6,112M revenue).
Profit Sharing = $28.5M

Group $377M profit (ditto) with a 3.3% margin ($292M net profit on $8,771M revenue.
Profit Sharing = $37.7M

Jim

 

[osunut]

Guess you need to be educated:

Acually, that report is not totally accurate. AC was not last they were really first. If it wasn't for them the other investers would not have joined in.

Also, HP was going to file BK in Feb 06 if the merger didn't happen. It had a project name even, just can't remember it, kind of like the merger was project Barbell.

Anywho, main reason is HP did not have the cash to go through a BK so it was more of a Ch 7 plan. US did have more assest so they could stay afloat longer, but only for about 6 months longer. HP & US saved each other, not HP saving US or anything like that. WE, "US" are one and I just wish ppl would deal and accept it. Drop the attitudes on the East and West and stop actiing like 3 year olds.

I am not going to qoute where these FACTS come from, but they are more accurate than that news report.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Acually, that report is not totally accurate. AC was not last they were really first. If it wasn't for them the other investers would not have joined in.

I assume that you're talking about post-merger announcement. If so, that is what I remember.

However, there were two earlier investors - Air Wisconsin (Eastshore) with DIP financing that converted to an equity investment upon emergence from BK, and Republic (Wexford) who was going to be strictly an equity investor upon emergence (and whose money was not taken).

Of course, before either of those the ATSB relaxed the cash requirements which had the same effect as an investment - it provided more spendable cash.

Jim

 

[700UW]

The anger should be taken out on Dougie, not the IAM, the company is the one who is not paying profit sharing to the West, nothing stops Doug from taking Company money, not the East's employees money and paying you.

The company is the one delaying negotiations, not the IAM or anyother union on the property.

But don't take money from people that gave up thousands of dollars in pay and much more in the loss of the pension.

 

[700UW]

And what HP West is doing to their employees shows exactly why you need a union, they are rewarding the East and crapping on the West and trying to keep them fighting amongst themeselves instead of the true cause of the problem, Al, Jerry and Doogie Howser.

 

[AIRWOMAN]

And what HP West is doing to their employees shows exactly why you need a union, they are rewarding the East and crapping on the West and trying to keep them fighting amongst themeselves instead of the true cause of the problem, Al, Jerry and Doogie Howser.

Not to disagree......west does have a union......it's the IAM and true, they aren't covered under the IAM CBA yet.

From what I've read and heard from various sources, the IAM is the only union that has chosen to exclude the west members........"at this time." Could that mean that the TA talks will include the west? Time will tell.

The "fighting" could stop.........but who's going to make the FIRST move to accomplish that?

 

[BoeingBoy]

The "fighting" could stop.........but who's going to make the FIRST move to accomplish that?

The key question, AIRWOMAN.

As I said somewhere in another thread on this subject, that's why I personally had no problem with the West pilots being included in "our" profit sharing. It's a pretty safe bet that Doug won't provide the extra money to cover them and that Jerry will use any tool to divide the two sides. So sharing was a small (relatively - something over $1,500) price to pay for removing that weapon from Jerry's arsenal.

Don't misunderstand - I still don't think it's right to demand inclusion "or else", but offering to share has it's benefits.

Jim

 

[AIRWOMAN]

The key question, AIRWOMAN.

As I said somewhere in another thread on this subject, that's why I personally had no problem with the West pilots being included in "our" profit sharing. It's a pretty safe bet that Doug won't provide the extra money to cover them and that Jerry will use any tool to divide the two sides. So sharing was a small (relatively - something over $1,500) price to pay for removing that weapon from Jerry's arsenal.

Don't misunderstand - I still don't think it's right to demand inclusion "or else", but offering to share has it's benefits.

Jim

Agreed.....totally.

Let the Holiday Spirit prevail for ALL parties involved.....maybe the TA talks with the M&R will yield some news.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Why is it when you say you talked to someone it supposed to taken as fact and yet when someone else says they talked to someone its hearsay?

Let me educate you:

hypocrite
One entry found for hypocrite.


Main Entry: hyp·o·crite
Pronunciation: 'hi-p&-"krit
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritEs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings
- hypocrite adjective

Charlie Tuna,

you make 'good sense', thanks for setting him straight.

And as far as Canale giving west 30%, that is appaling if it comes out of east contract provisions that aren't included in the west. Also, I heard from a second source that 141 did in fact bring up the '22 guys' from PHL in the last round of negotiations and the company found that appaling. There is a method of restoring their jobs in the grievance procedue, not by fleet service flipping the bill in negotiations, such a tag could be 7 figures to restore their jobs if they negotiate them back.

regards,

 

[diogenes]

Exactly.

If the PHL 22 did nothing wrong, then they have a solid case and excellent prospects of getting their job back via arbitration.

If the IAM is playing this angle, maybe the arb case doesn't look so good, yes?

Either way, fleet is already paying to defend them with dues money - it'd be BS to pay again with contract givebacks.