Travel Privileges for East and West VF Program

[Onestep2flt]

Irrespective of leave East MUST give up IDs, because we are considered "inactive", which means you cannot JS. Why doesn't this hold true on the west???

West side VLOAs and VF are 2 completely different sections in their contract. You can access it by going to AFA66 web. West side contract does not specifically state you can keep IDs. That comes up in Q&As. (also refer to what I posted earlier from an eline of theirs)

East side is all one section and goes in order. VLOA, then VF, UVF. This time around in the east they went straight to VF. Perhaps because the last leave was VLOA?? But wouldn't this new leave qualify as "new" in which VLOAs were NOT offered first and then VF???

Somethin Stinks is agreed :down: :down:

I totally agree about the ID issue if there is no FAA or TSA issue as Pitbull says. If the company is truly one and it is based solely on company policy then something does indeed stink!!

 

[Onestep2flt]

It seems to me, the worst reps are so crafty, they are able to spin anything to hold their seats. And their greatest lie -machine retorhic is conveying to the f/as with the issue, that it was somehow THIER problem.

It would seem that the MEC president might be taking tips from Baghdad BOB.

 

[Furloughd4now]

Well we've MUST be able to do SOMETHING. I can write a letter but one letter (from one who is NOT being furloughed) ain't gonna get jack! I've been told on more than one occasion that I am "just a reserve" so my voice won't count.

The folks currently out on leave or are preparing to leave need to know about this and make their voices heard.

So, those of you who are taking the leave on the East, demand you keep your IDs. Get that letter from the Town Hall meeting back in Dec 08 that stated just FLIGHT ATTENDANTS CAN KEEP THIER IDS! Nowhere does it differentiate between East and West. We ARE ONE COMPANY AND THIS IS A COMPANY POLICY!

I have said so many times I'm tired of paying all this money every month and getting absolutely nothing in return.

Oh and MF wants to have the West's MECs removed??? :blink:

 

[PITbull]

Well we've MUST be able to do SOMETHING. I can write a letter but one letter (from one who is NOT being furloughed) ain't gonna get jack! I've been told on more than one occasion that I am "just a reserve" so my voice won't count.

The folks currently out on leave or are preparing to leave need to know about this and make their voices heard.

So, those of you who are taking the leave on the East, demand you keep your IDs. Get that letter from the Town Hall meeting back in Dec 08 that stated just FLIGHT ATTENDANTS CAN KEEP THIER IDS! Nowhere does it differentiate between East and West. We ARE ONE COMPANY AND THIS IS A COMPANY POLICY!

I have said so many times I'm tired of paying all this money every month and getting absolutely nothing in return.

Oh and MF wants to have the West's MECs removed??? :blink:

From what I've been told by some f/as who transferred to CLT, is that the PHX MEC doesn't care one bit for the likes of Mike. Therefore, I can probably guess she won't be supporting him as the joint MECP. PHX will be the biggest most populated base in the system on a joint agreement. So, knowing Mike as I do, he will try his best to discredit her, and any LECP that supports her and her collegues.

This is why I think Mike is in no hurry what so ever to have a joint agreement. The longer he stalls, the longer he keeps his seat right into reitirement in a few years. And if this knucklehead runs for Pat Friends seat at the BOD, (she's suppose to retire) as he did a couple of years ago, (lost horribly) and gets enough support, then his lazy ass will be a lifer collecting another retirement credits from AFA.

 

[Onestep2flt]

From what I've been told by some f/as who transferred to CLT, is that the PHX MEC doesn't care one bit for the likes of Mike. Therefore, I can probably guess she won't be supporting him as the joint MECP. So, knowing Mike as I do, he will try his best to discredit her, and any LECP that supports her and her colleagues.

I believe that to be an understatement. I also believe there is quite a bit of wrongdoing on both sides that they should probably both be removed.

This is your problem folks. The people that are in office now are not there with the flight attendants best interests as a whole. I can't speak about the west other than the accusations that were talked about in another thread. However, if true then she is know better than the east MEC. The large part of the problem is that they spend too much time in bed with their inner circle of cronies and have forgot what they are truly there for. They drum up enough support to stay there but in the mean time forgot that the fight is with your management over a joint contract.

 

[PITbull]

From what I've been told by some f/as who transferred to CLT, is that the PHX MEC doesn't care one bit for the likes of Mike. Therefore, I can probably guess she won't be supporting him as the joint MECP. So, knowing Mike as I do, he will try his best to discredit her, and any LECP that supports her and her colleagues.

I believe that to be an understatement. I also believe there is quite a bit of wrongdoing on both sides that they should probably both be removed.

This is your problem folks. The people that are in office now are not there with the flight attendants best interests as a whole. I can't speak about the west other than the accusations that were talked about in another thread. However, if true then she is know better than the east MEC. The large part of the problem is that they spend too much time in bed with their inner circle of cronies and have forgot what they are truly there for. They drum up enough support to stay there but in the mean time forgot that the fight is with your management over a joint contract.

I don't know the WEST MECP, but she does have an impressive resume...well educated. I can see how she could be intimidating for Mike. She can't be easily convinced from what I'm told. Again, she can probably smell "self interest" a mile away. Hell, she ousted the PHX MEC last election. I don't have anything against Gary, only that from what I've seen when I was there, he was in Mike's back pocket. Just an observation.

Didn't like that.

 

[Onestep2flt]

If I had a dog in the fight I think I would start with a clean slate all the way around. I just don't understand how your flight attendants that take the abuse of a poorly crafted working agreement just sit and take it. With the exception of a few people on a web board there seems to be continued stagnation and complacency. I will never understand why reserves especially don't go on a rampage about the huge gap in treatment you are getting compared to the chosen few in your MEC's elite group. Just listening to some of the stories make me wonder if anyone is home. Then you have the folks stuck in the middle that teeter totter between the "Secondary Block" for the summer and back to the 5:00 am wake up calls of the lowly reserve.

Remember, Your MEC president and his crew are to represent the needs of all your flight attendants.

Anyway, this east west issue with the different treatment from management should not even be taking place. Please call your MEC president to the mat on this issue. For that matter, I would consider calling management directly and find out why the differences and why voluntary leaves of absence was not brought forth for east flight attendants. Ask directly to see the TSA rule/FAA rule that your MEC president is speaking of.

 

[Furloughd4now]

Apparently on the East furlough went to 1989. If anyone knows anyone, again, spread the word! A big 2 were awarded in LGA, I'll be sure to tell them

 

[cactusflyer]

I don't know the WEST MECP, but she does have an impressive resume...well educated. I can see how she could be intimidating for Mike. She can't be easily convinced from what I'm told. Again, she can probably smell "self interest" a mile away. Hell, she ousted the PHX MEC last election. I don't have anything against Gary, only that from what I've seen when I was there, he was in Mike's back pocket. Just an observation.

Didn't like that.

Let me start by saying that I'm a west FA, and I am going to be furloughed. So yes, I'm bitter, but getting over it because I have a back up plan. When the economy started taking a dive, I got my ducks in a row.

Be glad you don't know the West MECP. From what I gather about you and your posts PITbull, is that you are pretty savvy and educated yourself. I'm betting it would take you all of a NY minute to see what she is all about, and not in a good or impressive way. She talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk so to speak. She has an impressive resume? Well educated? She's got a bachelors degree. Big woop, lots of us have those and more. I think many on here can agree that a bachelor's degree certainly doesn't make one "well-educated". She sure doesn't act very "educated" either. She just managed to piss away vacation time for FA's on the west that take leaves, DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE WEST WON AN ARBITRATION ON THAT VERY ISSUE!!!! People are screaming about it over on the west FA discussion board. Also, there is recall currently going on in Phoenix headed up by one very organized reserve FA. The guy has over 500 signatures on her alone. The recall is for all of them and I'd bet money their days are numbered.

Since the hint of furlough came out I've left no less than 5 voicemails for her regarding ideas to possibly help curtail the number of furloughs. I've sent emails, nothing gets answered. I was told by the gal answering the phone that I probably wouldn't get a call back because "she doesn't do that unless you're someone from management or D.C. because she is busy, so your best bet is to email her." I feel so bad for my classmates that don't have a back up plan. It's a sad day when anyone loses their job, but even sadder when you don't feel like your voice is being heard and you have ideas that might help. Welcome to the world of organized labor, I guess.

Educated? No, she was just in the right place and the right time with the right message about an MEC that people weren't happy with at the time. The majority bought in to it and that is how she got herself and her cronies elected. Now we're left with a lemon of an MEC and there are no lemon laws to help us out of this mess.

Sorry for the vent, it's just important to me that those on the east realize it is far from utopia out here in the west.

 

[Furloughd4now]

Cactus;

So sorry to hear about your impending furlough. Do they have return dates? I didn't see any.

But its good to hear you have a backup!

You get to keep your ID and travel and see the world!

 

[HP2USFA]

You get to keep your ID and travel and see the world!

Actually no, we don't.

We're furloughed. Not on a Leave of Absence. We don't keep our badges. Which was the point I was originally trying to make. Only those who are taking a voluntary LEAVE OF ABSENCE on the West keep their badges.

The rest of us are either Voluntary or Involuntary Furlough and there is no badge for those.

The only thing we get is SA4 travel pass' and vacation payout if we haven't had it this year and 99.5% of us had our vacations in Jan-May of this year so no payout.

 

[Furloughd4now]

Actually no, we don't.

We're furloughed. Not on a Leave of Absence. We don't keep our badges. Which was the point I was originally trying to make. Only those who are taking a voluntary LEAVE OF ABSENCE on the West keep their badges.

The rest of us are either Voluntary or Involuntary Furlough and there is no badge for those.

The only thing we get is SA4 travel pass' and vacation payout if we haven't had it this year and 99.5% of us had our vacations in Jan-May of this year so no payout.

This is from WESTs section 21

E. 1. Pass privileges on America West Airlines shall continue for a furloughed Flight Attendant and her/his eligible dependents in accordance with Company policy. Travel on other airlines while on furlough is subject to the Company's inter-line agreement with each carrier.

This is from West's Q&A
VLOA
Travel Unlimited at SA3 Active for duration, SA1s,
Companion passes included. OAL allowed,
dependent upon each carriers guidelines.

VF
Unlimited at SA4 Inactive for 12 months, no
SA1s or Companion passes. No OAL allowed.

Sorry but am I seeing this wrong? If so, prove it. Because from what I can read your eligible.

BTW, where's the "company policy". I've searched P&P for FAs and P&P General and I can't find anything. "Company Policy" might mean whatever someone is feeling the day they decide ..... If someone has a link please post it..... Just trying to help out my brothers and sisters so EVERYONE gets treated the same

 

[HP2USFA]

You're not seeing it wrong but you just added to my point. My comment was purely on the idea that the West keeps their badges on Furlough (which we don't) and that there is a difference between VF and VLOA on the West. Two entirely different animals and only the Voluntary/Involuntary Furlough can be compared East to West. East is not offering a VLOA.

To that point, we don't need our badges to travel SA4. We're not keeping our badges. Your point was that we get to keep our badges and travel the world.

We don't. Sorry for the parroting but it hasn't seemed to sink in yet and I really don't know how else to say it to allow it to be better understood.

As for Company Policy, there in lies the problem. There is no published company policy on furloughs. We're having a roundtable at PHX tomorrow that I will be attending and hopefully whatever functions as 'Company Policy' will be totally explained.

But in any case, once more with passion, those on the west who will be furloughed either voluntarily or involuntarily will NOT be keeping their badges.

That was the whole title of this entire discussion and I only offered an explanation to clarify a misconception.

If the focus is to change the policy then it behooves everyone to be completely clear on the direction that must be taken to correct it and coming at the company or union comparing apples to oranges won't be an effective strategy. Cause the company will simply shoot down that argument with what I just posted. They are two entirely different programs mandated by current CBAs from two entirely different MECs.

Maybe this will speed up the need to find common ground now that we have something on the West that seems respectable after all? I don't know. But I do know I won't be traveling the world any time soon.

 

[Furloughd4now]

I'm just posting what your contract states. Your Section 21 pertains to "Furlough" and I grabbed that section. It was NOT taken out of your LOA section. BUT, Its "awfully" vague and subject to any interpretation.

If there is no written policy well then by golly we need one NOW. That's where our Union steps in! Hello Union are you watching???

If you are going to a meeting, I urge you to challenge the company on this. If there's no written policy then you should get what your contract states right????? And that is "pass priv. for you and eligible family members." According you YOUR Q&A it states that "With a furlough eligible family members are not entitled" .... but your contract states they are!

However, in the longrun it doesn't matter what I say. right or wrong, you guys are out and I'm sorry for that!

As for the East, I'll ask again, WHY did they go straight to furloughs and NOT offer LOAs with this round? Am I missing something? Inquiring minds want to know strictly for educational purposes only. h34r:

 

[Onestep2flt]

Yes, this is what everyone wants to know. It is an option. However, it is according to domicile meaning your company could say they need 2 here and 50 there. Personal thought is the east MEC does not want to ruffle feathers of his faithful that are in different domiciles.

I think the original topic was the reason stated from the MEC why east and west have different ID policies. TSA/FAA? That was when I pointed out that it was a voluntary furlough for east and leave of absence for west. Maybe there really are different rules. It was said by pitbull that it is a company policy issue and nothing more. I tend to believe she would know better than any. However there could have been some overnight policy change. The TSA makes up new rules everyday in regards to aviation. My point is don't except the MEC's answer on blind faith. Ask to see the policy or ask your management. All policies have hard copy somewhere.