Voting!

[odie01]

You want a guarantee? Sorry but I dont have control over that. Their is no automatic next step under the RLA, if the company doesnt come back with something more realistic then I would propose that we go to 2001 Book with adjustments to make up for inflationary losses to the wage rates, then when the company says NO, ask to be released. We went in too low in the forst place, reset the bar.

The fact is the International owns the contract, look at Article 47. You will see me listed as a witness. In the end two groups have a say here, the International who negotiates the agreement and the membership who either ratifies it or rejects it. I can only speak for the membership, the vote is their final say, either they agree with those who brought this back or they agree with those of us who voted against bringing it back.

Voting NO gives us Hope for a better future, if this passes we wont be any better off three years from now than we are today, we will be worse off. The concessions are deep and many.

The International spent a lot of money trying to get this thing to pass, without taking ownership of it. Just think of all those books they printed out, then the freight to all the Locals. The insert with the ballott was basically a "Vote YES or else but we arent telling you how to vote", it included every reason to vote YES but left out most of the reasons to vote NO. The Insert was made by the International with no input from the Negotiating Committee, they can do that because legally the Committee has no standing anyway, they are just witnesses.

Its been that way as long as I've been here.

The leadership has no faith in the membership, but they get their six figure salary no matter what happens. They do not think you are worth more than what's been put in front of you and they dont think that you think you are worth more than what they put in front of you. They dont think you are willing to fight and they use that as their excuse for their unwillingness to lead, and thats not confined to the International either. So they are trying to take the easy way out, put this POS out there,they didnt take any pay cuts nor did they go the last two years without a raise, DonV got his 3% last year and no doubt he will get just as much this year and the next as well. If it passes they are done for three years, when the reality of the concessions sink and they are confronted by an outraged membership they will put their hands up and say "dont blame us, you voted it in" or "blame the negotiating committee" and if that fails they will try and act like they were mislead by the company , "dont worry fellas, we'll get em next time", if that fails they will try and turn the tables and blame you for not going to membership meetings and if that fails they will tell you they need to use the restroom and slip out of the building. 9 times out of 10 they dont have to go beyond "Blame the Negotiating Committee". Lets make this the 10th time.

By voting NO and rejecting this deal it will send a message loud and clear to the International , "The concessions stand is closed, go back in there and get us something better or else", now it appears they actually have an "or else" in the works.

 

[odie01]

Their is nothing else to say, vote no and sign an AMP card. Thanks Bob!

 

[aapitbull]

You want a guarantee? Sorry but I dont have control over that. Their is no automatic next step under the RLA, if the company doesnt come back with something more realistic then I would propose that we go to 2001 Book with adjustments to make up for inflationary losses to the wage rates, then when the company says NO, ask to be released. We went in too low in the first place, reset the bar.

The fact is the International owns the contract, look at Article 47. You will see me listed as a witness. In the end two groups have a say here, the International who negotiates the agreement and the membership who either ratifies it or rejects it. I can only speak for the membership, the vote is their final say, either they agree with those who brought this back or they agree with those of us who voted against bringing it back.

Voting NO gives us Hope for a better future, if this passes we wont be any better off three years from now than we are today, we will be worse off. The concessions are deep and many.

The International spent a lot of money trying to get this thing to pass, without taking ownership of it. Just think of all those books they printed out, then the freight to all the Locals. The insert with the ballott was basically a "Vote YES or else but we arent telling you how to vote", it included every reason to vote YES but left out most of the reasons to vote NO. The Insert was made by the International with no input from the Negotiating Committee, they can do that because legally the Committee has no standing anyway, they are just witnesses.

Its been that way as long as I've been here.

The leadership has no faith in the membership, but they get their six figure salary no matter what happens. They do not think you are worth more than what's been put in front of you and they dont think that you think you are worth more than what they put in front of you. They dont think you are willing to fight and they use that as their excuse for their unwillingness to lead, and thats not confined to the International either. So they are trying to take the easy way out, put this POS out there,they didnt take any pay cuts nor did they go the last two years without a raise, DonV got his 3% last year and no doubt he will get just as much this year and the next as well. If it passes they are done for three years, when the reality of the concessions sink and they are confronted by an outraged membership they will put their hands up and say "dont blame us, you voted it in" or "blame the negotiating committee" and if that fails they will try and act like they were mislead by the company , "dont worry fellas, we'll get em next time", if that fails they will try and turn the tables and blame you for not going to membership meetings and if that fails they will tell you they need to use the restroom and slip out of the building. 9 times out of 10 they dont have to go beyond "Blame the Negotiating Committee". Lets make this that 10th time.

By voting NO and rejecting this deal it will send a message loud and clear to the International , "The concessions stand is closed, go back in there and get us something better or else", now it appears they actually have an "or else" in the works.

PS Dave, It was the other way around, we took the oath first, then were told that we could not speak at Negotiations.

That is about as good as it gets, simple and to the point are presidents are observers see guys AMFA was wrong the TWU does let elected observers in. Thanks Bob!!

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

You can ask the NMB to release you until you're blue in the face. There won't be any release. Voting no sends you to the back of the class with the dunce cap on, where you get to wait until other TWU groups, pilots and flight attendants do their thing. You'll be looking at mid-2011 before the NMB thinks about turning its gaze back to you. Not saying it's right, just that it is the reality of the situation, and that is one of the risks a no vote takes.

 

[Duke787]

You want a guarantee? Sorry but I dont have control over that. Their is no automatic next step under the RLA, if the company doesnt come back with something more realistic then I would propose that we go to 2001 Book with adjustments to make up for inflationary losses to the wage rates, then when the company says NO, ask to be released. We went in too low in the first place, reset the bar.

The fact is the International owns the contract, look at Article 47. You will see me listed as a witness. In the end two groups have a say here, the International who negotiates the agreement and the membership who either ratifies it or rejects it. I can only speak for the membership, the vote is their final say, either they agree with those who brought this back or they agree with those of us who voted against bringing it back.

Voting NO gives us Hope for a better future, if this passes we wont be any better off three years from now than we are today, we will be worse off. The concessions are deep and many.

The International spent a lot of money trying to get this thing to pass, without taking ownership of it. Just think of all those books they printed out, then the freight to all the Locals. The insert with the ballott was basically a "Vote YES or else but we arent telling you how to vote", it included every reason to vote YES but left out most of the reasons to vote NO. The Insert was made by the International with no input from the Negotiating Committee, they can do that because legally the Committee has no standing anyway, they are just witnesses.

Its been that way as long as I've been here.

The leadership has no faith in the membership, but they get their six figure salary no matter what happens. They do not think you are worth more than what's been put in front of you and they dont think that you think you are worth more than what they put in front of you. They dont think you are willing to fight and they use that as their excuse for their unwillingness to lead, and thats not confined to the International either. So they are trying to take the easy way out, put this POS out there,they didnt take any pay cuts nor did they go the last two years without a raise, DonV got his 3% last year and no doubt he will get just as much this year and the next as well. If it passes they are done for three years, when the reality of the concessions sink and they are confronted by an outraged membership they will put their hands up and say "dont blame us, you voted it in" or "blame the negotiating committee" and if that fails they will try and act like they were mislead by the company , "dont worry fellas, we'll get em next time", if that fails they will try and turn the tables and blame you for not going to membership meetings and if that fails they will tell you they need to use the restroom and slip out of the building. 9 times out of 10 they dont have to go beyond "Blame the Negotiating Committee". Lets make this that 10th time.

By voting NO and rejecting this deal it will send a message loud and clear to the International , "The concessions stand is closed, go back in there and get us something better or else", now it appears they actually have an "or else" in the works.

PS Dave, It was the other way around, we took the oath first, then were told that we could not speak at Negotiations.

Thanks Bob, for the reply, and thank you for all your hard work on our behalf. I know it's not easy for you, when everybody has a different opinion on what you should do, and is willing to tell you.



B)

 

[1AA]

You can ask the NMB to release you until you're blue in the face. There won't be any release. Voting no sends you to the back of the class with the dunce cap on, where you get to wait until other TWU groups, pilots and flight attendants do their thing. You'll be looking at mid-2011 before the NMB thinks about turning its gaze back to you. Not saying it's right, just that it is the reality of the situation, and that is one of the risks a no vote takes.

Mid 2011 is perfect. It gives us time to organize our new inhouse grass routes Union which will light a fire under the TWU's butt and they will beg AA to do something or lose their toy union. I can wait for mid 2011 with a real union in place representing us. Can the TWU wait that long?

 

[Vortilon]

You can ask the NMB to release you until you're blue in the face. There won't be any release. Voting no sends you to the back of the class with the dunce cap on, where you get to wait until other TWU groups, pilots and flight attendants do their thing. You'll be looking at mid-2011 before the NMB thinks about turning its gaze back to you. Not saying it's right, just that it is the reality of the situation, and that is one of the risks a no vote takes.

Another expert on the topic? Word is, that Kane said that if this TA wasn't put to a vote by the membership, he was going to put the Mechanic negotiations on ice for six months. Why would Kane then penalize the mechanic negotiations for bringing it to a vote, regardless of the outcome?

 

[Bob Owens]

Another expert on the topic? Word is, that Kane said that if this TA wasn't put to a vote by the membership, he was going to put the Mechanic negotiations on ice for six months. Why would Kane then penalize the mechanic negotiations for bringing it to a vote, regardless of the outcome?

I dont recall Kane saying that to Maintenance, he said something to that effect to the Stores guys after our TA.

 

[Imjustsayin]

I dont recall Kane saying that to Maintenance, he said something to that effect to the Stores guys after our TA.

Sorry, for us onlookers, who is "Kane"?

 

[The Goose]

Mid 2011 is perfect. It gives us time to organize our new inhouse grass routes Union which will light a fire under the TWU's butt and they will beg AA to do something or lose their toy union. I can wait for mid 2011 with a real union in place representing us. Can the TWU wait that long?

The FrequentFlyers may be wringing their hands, not knowing whats going on unless they read it here.

I can't imagine what possesses someone with (supposedly) no dog in this fight to continually post of doom and gloom on an aviation board.

Olesen I can understand as he worked for AA once upon a time, but this FrequentFlyer clown, not working for nor ever worked for AA, the only interest he/she could have is the continued subsidy of cheap tickets by the mechanics - I wonder what need we are fulfilling for this person that they continue to post as though they are some manner of authority?

 

[Imjustsayin]

The FrequentFlyers may be wringing their hands, not knowing whats going on unless they read it here.

I can't imagine what possesses someone with (supposedly) no dog in this fight to continually post of doom and gloom on an aviation board.

Olesen I can understand as he worked for AA once upon a time, but this FrequentFlyer clown, not working for nor ever worked for AA, the only interest he/she could have is the continued subsidy of cheap tickets by the mechanics - I wonder what need we are fulfilling for this person that they continue to post as though they are some manner of authority?

Some of us just lead boring lives - probably should take up knitting or something...so who is "Kane"

 

[paul1]

Some of us just lead boring lives - probably should take up knitting or something...so who is "Kane"

kane = nmb go between

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Mid 2011 is perfect. It gives us time to organize our new inhouse grass routes Union which will light a fire under the TWU's butt and they will beg AA to do something or lose their toy union. I can wait for mid 2011 with a real union in place representing us. Can the TWU wait that long?

Good point

 

[Boomer]

You can ask the NMB to release you until you're blue in the face. There won't be any release. Voting no sends you to the back of the class with the dunce cap on, where you get to wait until other TWU groups, pilots and flight attendants do their thing. You'll be looking at mid-2011 before the NMB thinks about turning its gaze back to you. Not saying it's right, just that it is the reality of the situation, and that is one of the risks a no vote takes.

Mailed two different envelopes today: one marked "NO, I Authorize...Strike," and one marked "YES, I Authorize...Representation."

Mid-2011 will work just fine.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

You can ask the NMB to release you until you're blue in the face. There won't be any release. Voting no sends you to the back of the class with the dunce cap on, where you get to wait until other TWU groups, pilots and flight attendants do their thing. You'll be looking at mid-2011 before the NMB thinks about turning its gaze back to you. Not saying it's right, just that it is the reality of the situation, and that is one of the risks a no vote takes.

Being put to the back of the class is better than accepting bad language that will eventually trickle through the industry. Heck, the company dragged their feet so long we are use to waiting.

Mid 2011 will work just fine.