Voting!

[olderguyAMT]

"A NO vote is the only vote and exactly how I'm voting. For all those including you thinking of voting yes, go ahead, but don't complain when you get laid off as a result. You obviously haven't a clue as to the gravity of marking yes on that ballot. Too bad for you, wish you would educate yourself before running blindly to the edge of that cliff, have fun because it's a really long way down. "

About the official ballot wording, and have this suggestion to those who write the dang thang.
_______________________________________________________
Here is what it says........
Yes: I vote to accept.

No: I vote to reject and authorize the negotiating committee to take whatever action is necessary up to and including a strike.
________________________________________________________

I say, change the wording on the No vote language to this:

Yes: I vote to accept the TA as written.

I vote NO to reject the TA as written, and authorize the Negotiating Committee to NEGOTIATE!

Which apparently was not done in this case,

and to authorize whatever action necessary, up to and including a strike

 

[The Goose]

"A NO vote is the only vote and exactly how I'm voting. For all those including you thinking of voting yes, go ahead, but don't complain when you get laid off as a result. You obviously haven't a clue as to the gravity of marking yes on that ballot. Too bad for you, wish you would educate yourself before running blindly to the edge of that cliff, have fun because it's a really long way down. "

About the official ballot wording, and have this suggestion to those who write the dang thang.
_______________________________________________________
Here is what it says........
Yes: I vote to accept.

No: I vote to reject and authorize the negotiating committee to take whatever action is necessary up to and including a strike.
________________________________________________________

I say, change the wording on the No vote language to this:

Yes: I vote to accept the TA as written.

I vote NO to reject the TA as written, and authorize the Negotiating Committee to NEGOTIATE!

Which apparently was not done in this case,

and to authorize whatever action necessary, up to and including a strike

A long time ago, a steward told me these psuedo-negotiating committees and the company lock themselves in a room with a group of whores and a bunch of whiskey. When they've porked all the whores and drank all the whiskey, they settle the contract.

With no back and forth discussion or counter offers (only acceptance by Fat Don), the TAs rapidly came one after the other, all appearing to have come from the same cookie cutter with minor variances to fit the particular workgroup.

At this point, I simply want the TWU off the property. I am not interested in seeing any further so-called "negotiation" with the company as there is no difference between the "union" and company - it's all a show to convince us we're actually getting something of value for the dues we pay.

 

[TWU informer]

I wonder if would fair any better during negotiations if the TWU had this policy?

A Professional Negotiator shall be used in all negotiations with the company, he/she will be an equal member and participant of the Negotiating Committee, assisting the Chairman in the goals and objectives set forth by the Board of Directors. The Negotiator shall not assume the duties and position of the Chairman, but assist the Chairman in his duties, and shall report directly to the Board of Directors. The Professional Negotiator shall be responsible for maintaining a negotiating history, archives, facilitate, preparations for mediations, arbitrations, grievances and possible lawsuits during the life of the contract. He/she will also be responsible for training and arranging skilled negotiating courses for the Committee Members with the approval of the Board of Directors.

By the way I copied and pasted this information from the AMP Constituion.

Which would you rather have? Bubba's from the toolbox that can be bought off by International lifetime appointments, or a professional negotiator?

 

[The Goose]

I wonder if would fair any better during negotiations if the TWU had this policy?



By the way I copied and pasted this information from the AMP Constitution.

Which would you rather have? Bubba's from the toolbox that can be bought off by International lifetime appointments, or a professional negotiator?

In this day and age, all seems to be for sale - not a helluva lot different than living in Mexico.

A certain amount of integrity will go a long way. If for no other reason, it's not something the company is used to dealing with and they probably haven't the tactics to handle it.

I feel good about this - voted "NO" on the "lovely" and "generous" TA earlier this week and mailed my authorization card (signed and dated) to the AMP boys/girls in Ft. Worth yesterday.

Little Jimmy and the boys might be taking a pay cut when all is said and swung.

All together, now, in unison - "AAAAAWWWWWW - poor babies".

Now - on a serious note. As I see it, we are being literally given a second chance with AMP to correct a course that changed for the worse over the years, a little (no pun intended) at a time in order not to be noticed, in much the same as the direction our country has changed its course also.

Neither our union's governance nor that of our country is a spectator sport as "they" will always be hiding in the shadows waiting for the opportunity to do something for our "benefit". On both counts, we have our present situations because it was "inconvenient" for us to pay attention and we mistakely believed someone else would act in our best interests simply because we paid them to. Rest assured, if AMP does become our agent, the same group of worthless SOBs will be looking for a way in so they can continue their lifestyle of doing nothing and being paid handsomely for it.

Even though many may consider the saying corny-sounding, it's been said the true cost of Liberty and Freedom is Eternal Vigilance - not sure who first said the words but they're quite true and they apply equally to both our representation and our country. When we quit paying attention because we're too busy, have too many other things we'd rather do and leave the dirty work to a politician (the definition of which is a professional liar), we'll always get the crappy end of the stick and always lose as we have - bigtime.

 

[Boomer]

"A NO vote is the only vote and exactly how I'm voting. For all those including you thinking of voting yes, go ahead, but don't complain when you get laid off as a result. You obviously haven't a clue as to the gravity of marking yes on that ballot. Too bad for you, wish you would educate yourself before running blindly to the edge of that cliff, have fun because it's a really long way down. "

About the official ballot wording, and have this suggestion to those who write the dang thang.
_______________________________________________________
Here is what it says........
Yes: I vote to accept.

No: I vote to reject and authorize the negotiating committee to take whatever action is necessary up to and including a strike.
________________________________________________________

I say, change the wording on the No vote language to this:

Yes: I vote to accept the TA as written.

I vote NO to reject the TA as written, and authorize the Negotiating Committee to NEGOTIATE!

Which apparently was not done in this case,

and to authorize whatever action necessary, up to and including a strike

A long time ago, a steward told me these psuedo-negotiating committees and the company lock themselves in a room with a group of whores and a bunch of whiskey. When they've porked all the whores and drank all the whiskey, they settle the contract.

With no back and forth discussion or counter offers (only acceptance by Fat Don), the TAs rapidly came one after the other, all appearing to have come from the same cookie cutter with minor variances to fit the particular workgroup.

At this point, I simply want the TWU off the property. I am not interested in seeing any further so-called "negotiation" with the company as there is no difference between the "union" and company - it's all a show to convince us we're actually getting something of value for the dues we pay.

During an extensive review of the conditions under which negotiations were conducted for both the 2001 and 2003 contracts: the individual negotiators stated that although they were sequestered by the TWU International for more than thirty days preceeding the announcement of a TWU M&R T/A: they met directly with the company less than 8 actual hours of face to face meetings during which they were denied the opportunity to actually present various negotiations positions to the company. Instead, the TWU International forced the contractual groups into sequestered, isolated negotiations commitees, that bounced proposals against the TWU International, (who either agreed to the proposal or denied it in whole), but met with the company less than 4-6 hours each and every week of Negotiations.

Does anyone have information that these negotiations were any different from those held in 2001 and 2003?

 

[olderguyAMT]

During an extensive review of the conditions under which negotiations were conducted for both the 2001 and 2003 contracts: the individual negotiators stated that although they were sequestered by the TWU International for more than thirty days preceeding the announcement of a TWU M&R T/A: they met directly with the company less than 8 actual hours of face to face meetings during which they were denied the opportunity to actually present various negotiations positions to the company. Instead, the TWU International forced the contractual groups into sequestered, isolated negotiations commitees, that bounced proposals against the TWU International, (who either agreed to the proposal or denied it in whole), but met with the company less than 4-6 hours each and every week of Negotiations.

Does anyone have information that these negotiations were any different from those held in 2001 and 2003?

SO IT WAS THE INTERNATIONAL THAT DENIED US A COST OF LIVING ALLOWANCE?
I always wondered how the COLA got shot down.

Inflation, that is, true inflation isthe rising cost of medical expenses, food, gas, electricity, property taxes, utilities, and general misc. consumer items. Think of how much costs have risen since the last contract.
Everyone has seen the affect of rising costs. AND this TA is lacking a COLA.

Did the TWU keep the COLA off the table?

I need to know the truth.

 

[toroshark]

I wonder if would fair any better during negotiations if the TWU had this policy?



By the way I copied and pasted this information from the AMP Constituion.

Which would you rather have? Bubba's from the toolbox that can be bought off by International lifetime appointments, or a professional negotiator?

Or a self-described "I got mine brother" ?

 

[Bob Owens]

During an extensive review of the conditions under which negotiations were conducted for both the 2001 and 2003 contracts: the individual negotiators stated that although they were sequestered by the TWU International for more than thirty days preceeding the announcement of a TWU M&R T/A: they met directly with the company less than 8 actual hours of face to face meetings during which they were denied the opportunity to actually present various negotiations positions to the company. Instead, the TWU International forced the contractual groups into sequestered, isolated negotiations commitees, that bounced proposals against the TWU International, (who either agreed to the proposal or denied it in whole), but met with the company less than 4-6 hours each and every week of Negotiations.

Does anyone have information that these negotiations were any different from those held in 2001 and 2003?

Nope. We were not allowed to even speak when the company was in the room. We could pass notes to Don but thats it.

 

[TWU informer]

Nope. We were not allowed to even speak when the company was in the room. We could pass notes to Don but thats it.

And you are still a TWU Officer with sworn allegiance to the TWU and the TWU Consitution after that happened? Wow

I ran for E-Board in Tulsa. I didnt campaign at all because I really wasn't sure how I would stand before the members and be required to take that oath of office. Swearing allegenace to the TWU and defend faithfully this union was a real sitck in my craw if you know what I mean.

 

[Duke787]

Nope. We were not allowed to even speak when the company was in the room. We could pass notes to Don but thats it.

Bob, if the TA is turned down and you go back to negotiate again, how do we know the negotiations will be handled better? Or do we just request to be released into 30 day cooling off period?

 

[aapitbull]

Now - on a serious note. As I see it, we are being literally given a second chance with AMP to correct a course that changed for the worse over the years, a little (no pun intended) at a time in order not to be noticed, in much the same as the direction our country has changed its course also.

Neither our union's governance nor that of our country is a spectator sport as "they" will always be hiding in the shadows waiting for the opportunity to do something for our "benefit". On both counts, we have our present situations because it was "inconvenient" for us to pay attention and we mistakely believed someone else would act in our best interests simply because we paid them to. Rest assured, if AMP does become our agent, the same group of worthless SOBs will be looking for a way in so they can continue their lifestyle of doing nothing and being paid handsomely for it.

Even though many may consider the saying corny-sounding, it's been said the true cost of Liberty and Freedom is Eternal Vigilance - not sure who first said the words but they're quite true and they apply equally to both our representation and our country. When we quit paying attention because we're too busy, have too many other things we'd rather do and leave the dirty work to a politician (the definition of which is a professional liar), we'll always get the crappy end of the stick and always lose as we have - bigtime.

This is spot on, And let me add that it did my heart good to see Gary Yingist only recieve 200 votes in the last election,remember many others will step forward to lead when they have a constitution to effect real change for the better. I for one would have never taken a oath of allegiance to Jim Little and the worthless TWU!

 

[Birdman]

Even though many may consider the saying corny-sounding, it's been said the true cost of Liberty and Freedom is Eternal Vigilance - not sure who first said the words but they're quite true and they apply equally to both our representation and our country. When we quit paying attention because we're too busy, have too many other things we'd rather do and leave the dirty work to a politician (the definition of which is a professional liar), we'll always get the crappy end of the stick and always lose as we have - bigtime.

That's true, and this would also apply: "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." --- Plato

 

[Bob Owens]

And you are still a TWU Officer with sworn allegiance to the TWU and the TWU Consitution after that happened? Wow

After what happened?

 

[TWU informer]

After what happened?

After you were unable to speak in negotiaitons and have been gagged by this union.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, if the TA is turned down and you go back to negotiate again, how do we know the negotiations will be handled better? Or do we just request to be released into 30 day cooling off period?

You want a guarantee? Sorry but I dont have control over that. Their is no automatic next step under the RLA, if the company doesnt come back with something more realistic then I would propose that we go to 2001 Book with adjustments to make up for inflationary losses to the wage rates, then when the company says NO, ask to be released. We went in too low in the first place, reset the bar.

The fact is the International owns the contract, look at Article 47. You will see me listed as a witness. In the end two groups have a say here, the International who negotiates the agreement and the membership who either ratifies it or rejects it. I can only speak for the membership, the vote is their final say, either they agree with those who brought this back or they agree with those of us who voted against bringing it back.

Voting NO gives us Hope for a better future, if this passes we wont be any better off three years from now than we are today, we will be worse off. The concessions are deep and many.

The International spent a lot of money trying to get this thing to pass, without taking ownership of it. Just think of all those books they printed out, then the freight to all the Locals. The insert with the ballott was basically a "Vote YES or else but we arent telling you how to vote", it included every reason to vote YES but left out most of the reasons to vote NO. The Insert was made by the International with no input from the Negotiating Committee, they can do that because legally the Committee has no standing anyway, they are just witnesses.

Its been that way as long as I've been here.

The leadership has no faith in the membership, but they get their six figure salary no matter what happens. They do not think you are worth more than what's been put in front of you and they dont think that you think you are worth more than what they put in front of you. They dont think you are willing to fight and they use that as their excuse for their unwillingness to lead, and thats not confined to the International either. So they are trying to take the easy way out, put this POS out there,they didnt take any pay cuts nor did they go the last two years without a raise, DonV got his 3% last year and no doubt he will get just as much this year and the next as well. If it passes they are done for three years, when the reality of the concessions sink and they are confronted by an outraged membership they will put their hands up and say "dont blame us, you voted it in" or "blame the negotiating committee" and if that fails they will try and act like they were mislead by the company , "dont worry fellas, we'll get em next time", if that fails they will try and turn the tables and blame you for not going to membership meetings and if that fails they will tell you they need to use the restroom and slip out of the building. 9 times out of 10 they dont have to go beyond "Blame the Negotiating Committee". Lets make this that 10th time.

By voting NO and rejecting this deal it will send a message loud and clear to the International , "The concessions stand is closed, go back in there and get us something better or else", now it appears they actually have an "or else" in the works.

PS Dave, It was the other way around, we took the oath first, then were told that we could not speak at Negotiations.