USAirways pilots labor thread 7/23-7-29

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the "let my Daddy vote" (grass roots, ha, ha) cdampaign on LOA93.


Wasn't a primary tenant of USAPAs formation to be based upon the most "democratic" pilot union in History? One could surmise that, (in the opinion of vocal Easties) that ALPA was not a democratic organization. However, you bring up the "let my daddy vote" crowd in a disparaging manner every chance you get. The majority of your fellow pilots were a "let my daddy vote" pilot. They cast their votes and the majority of your co-workers wanted LOA 93. That's democracy. That's what you claim you wanted...majority rule. Yet you continually mock them and attempt to discredit the very thing you hope to be. You may not like it, but that's democracy. You can't pick and choose which "majority" you want to respect. That's hypocritical and shines a very bright light on what is the obvious motivation behind your new found reverence for Democracy. I'll remind you the jury and judge saw how obvious it is as well. Hence the Permanent Injunction
 
Same with LOA93/LOA84 pay restoration. Those are 2 good reasons to hang on.
And the same old song keeps playing over and over.

Stick with USAPA boys, the payout is just over the next hill! We meant the next one. Um, its the next one for sure!

Keep them pumped Mega!
 
They run their mouths about some mythical, non-exsistent TA that USAPA is keeping from a vote.
Guess court transcripts don't count.

Just ask yourselves what USAPA has gotten you since it came on property:

1. Legal fees for a futile RICO suit

2. Addington loss

3. Injunction

4. Nicolau firmly planted as the one and only seniority list - as confirmed by the company lawyer as well

5. Two brand new Fords for the dues-sucking elite

Did I miss anything?
 
Most everyone I know will take this to the end I have never seen such strong resolve, from Capt s. and F/Os. And yes there are a few exceptions your die hard I want a job at ALPO national types.


Every Captain I've flown with in the last two months says it's over and it's time to get paid.

The F/Os don't want to hear it so why would the Captains want to talk about it?
 
Every Captain I've flown with in the last two months says it's over and it's time to get paid.

The F/Os don't want to hear it so why would the Captains want to talk about it?

This is actually very funny and telling. Every captain YOU'VE flown with talks about it. The other F/Os don't want to hear about it so their captains don't talk about it. Ergo, your captains talk about it because YOU do want to hear it. Thanks for the softball.
 
This is actually very funny and telling. Every captain YOU'VE flown with talks about it. The other F/Os don't want to hear about it so their captains don't talk about it. Ergo, your captains talk about it because YOU do want to hear it. Thanks for the softball.

They talk about it because I ask them what they think about USAPA.

Like I said, keep on denying reality.
 
Did you ask them if they thought the meager pay the company had on offer would make them happy? If they think caving on the Nicolau now would somehow magically open the company coffers to line the pilots' pockets, they are soooo off the mark.

Most say $160/hr would make them happy and we ain't going to get it now.

Two years ago was the time to get it.

If you think destroying any leverage we might have had by continuing to fight the West will open the company coffers, you're off the mark.
 
Every Captain I've flown with in the last two months says it's over and it's time to get paid.
and I agree with them.

But, that does not mean they (or I) are willing to throw our seniority away for a 3% raise when, by waiting a few months, we can get a 22 plus percent raise. Plus payout.

It does not make any sense to endure four years of the bad parts of 93, then, on the verge of experiencing the few "good" parts, toss the "good" parts away. That reminds me of the thinking that ALPA practiced. or a Monty Python skit. ;)
 
The union has every reason to wait for the 2 situations at hand to play out.
AWA pilots are desperate...it's so obvious it's actually funny. Some are posting their spittle every 2 minutes. The players have changed but the song is the same. It's a great study in human behavior. The mental gymnastics are hard at work out in the hot desert.

cheers
 
Most say $160/hr would make them happy and we ain't going to get it now.

Two years ago was the time to get it.
$160 per hour is less than a certain Central American captain makes, just for reference. That is in US dollars. BTW, that same Central American carrier also has a clause that if a pilot has fifteen years with the company and there is no captain vacancy, that pilot is then paid at captain rates.

and your comment about "two years ago" is silly on it's face, though was overly used by ALPA. Looking back and denying further action by mindlessly repeating, "Oh, we should have done that", is a fools path through life.

Move ahead. If the company wants to modify a contractual item, let them do it in bankruptcy. This time, let them be the bad guys.
 
12 year TOS rates for east equipment

Position...Eq...Current...1/2010...5/2010
Capt...A330...159.....229...236
F/O.....A330...108....156...161
Capt...Grp1...144....205....211
F/O.....Grp1...98.....140....144
Capt...Grp2...124....178....183
F/O.....Grp2...85.....121....125
Capt...E190...96.....98......98
F/O.....E190...53.....54......54

Question is: Would mgmt offer these payrates? Nope. Is it in our best interest to wait LESS THAN 6 MONTHS to get them? Yep. Is it a significant bargaining chip to use in any negotiation? Yep.
Guys here keep harping about how the new guys haven't brought home a new contract yet and how they can't because they have no bargaining position. Well, here it is guys. These are the base rates for any negotiations going forward. Waiting also helps because the economy is improving (Newsweek declared 'the recession is over' this week). Why hurry up and get a recessionary/concessionary/under-industry-rate contract when waiting a few months could pay more? Savvy horse traders know how to play the game - this is it.
BTW, I am astounded at anyone being 'happy' at $160/hr for AB320 equip - (LUV just turned down $240/hr for 737) I suppose you'd be 'happy' with a ten year lock on that rate too??
Cheers
 
$160 per hour is less than a certain Central American captain makes, just for reference. That is in US dollars. BTW, that same Central American carrier also has a clause that if a pilots has fifteen years with the company and there is no captain vacancy, that pilot is paid at captain rates.

and your comment about "two years ago" is silly on it's face, though was overly used by ALPA. Looking back and denying further action by mindlessly repeating, "Oh, we should have done that", is a fools path through life.

Move ahead. If the company wants to modify a contractual item, let them do it in bankruptcy. This time, let them be the bad guys.
And bankruptcy has worked so well for you in the past. The east lost your retirement under BK. Do you blame the company for that? No I believe ALPA national gets that. When you went to LOA 93 was the company the bad guy for that? No again ALPA.

So if the company goes BK and you end up with a worse contract again. What blame will usapa get? Will "national" take the blame on that one?

So I guess you will be leaving for central america then? If it is better there, that is where you should go.
 
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