Fences were on the table but, obviously, of no interest to the east.
USAirways pilots labor thread 7/23-7-29
- Thread starter Edward
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I was aware on the RJ grievance (that's how you spell it by the way) but I tend to put losing propositions out of mind.
You wanted an example and I gave you one.
Nic being on property is a matter of when, not if. In face, USAPA has already modified its website accordingly.Well, with all your injunctions and documents, it apperars to me that it has not done you any good so far. The NIC not on the property, will not be implemented for along time if at all, my guess is you won't have to worry about because I doubt you be around in 8 months or so. Hope you enjoy your documents. USAPA has done great !!! P.S. did you figure out the RJ grivence yet, and the parking of E190s
And I'm sure your "8 months" prediction is about as accurate as the one regarding your snapbacks. Not really worried about either coming to pass. I'm pretty sure "I be around" for quite a while.
In the mean time, you can continue toiling under LOA 93.
And yes, I figured out the RJ grievance, especially the part on spelling the word "grievance."
USAPA did not create LOA 93... that POS was created and promoted by ALPA, while the "let my daddy vote" crowd bought into all the BS that ALPA was spoon-feeding them. And you guys have the audacity to criticize USAPA, after all the brilliant LOA's delivered to the company at the expense of the East pilots. It figures! Oh and if you believe your dear ALPA could have delivered an industry leading contract by now... I've got a bridge for ya!
cleardirect
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- May 24, 2008
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No USAPA did not create LOA 93. But after April 18, 2008 they are responsible for it. USAPA is to blame or at fault for anything that happens after that date. So far USAPA is no closer to a contract then we were 15 months ago.
How long are you going to point your fingers at ALPA? When does USAPA take responsibility for what happens going forward? I have to ask the question. If ALPA was so bad why did you all follow that organization and allow them to do what they did to you?
Now that USAPA is in charge how long are you going to follow them down the same destructive path? You say that ALPA spoon feed you. USAPA is doing the same thing and you guys are opening up wide for more BS.
So far USAPA has been unable and unwilling to deliver a new contract. If usapa continues to delay that primary function. But also continue to fail at the other basic duties of a union. What good is usapa? How long are you going to allow this current leadership to be a poor union?
If ALPA was unable to deliver a contract how long will you wait for USAPA to do their job?
captainJack
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- Jul 16, 2009
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I want an example that complies with your own criteria. Instead, you proffer something else entirely. Like bait-n-switch.
Try an example where a pilot has, finally, lost the ability to "get his job back" and not something that is "in process" per federal law.
The only item anyone could really "bash" USAPA for is not having termination notices sent out last fall for non-payment of dues or maintenance fees.
captainJack
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- Jul 16, 2009
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Actually, you are wrong.
nycbusdriver
Veteran
So just what are you saying? What's your point? USAPA inherited LOA 93 along with the rest of our crappy contract. And yours as well.
USAPA became responsible when they were elected as our CBA (see comments below)... We did do something; we kicked ALPA to the curb on April 17, 2008
What destructive path? fighting the arbitration award, which we feel was grossly unfair?... I never said ALPA spoon fed ME nor the other 43% of those pilots who voted against virtually everything ALPA has proffered for the last 10 years… We on the east don't paint everything with a wide brush, there are some things in sore need of improvement within USAPA, but I have never been naive enough to buy into BS when I hear it... from ALPA or USAPA. I will say though, when ALPA geared up their spin machine (one of the few things they excelled at) they had the 57% that voted for that POS LOA 93 wetting their pants!
So, tell me all the ways USAPA has failed… USAPA is as good as its membership. With 1600 to 1800 west pilots and about 350 east pilots fighting them at every turn, what do you expect?
You are kidding aren't you? Any contract that the company would be willing to offer would never be ratified. Are you living under a rock.? Can you not see what is going on in the economy and the world??? USAPA is not a "poor union"… do I like some who are part of the current leadership? not particularly, and I didn't support nor vote for all of those that won ….
How long did the west have to wait for ALPA to even deliver the NIC to the company, and even then, they were trying to negotiate the award while covering their butts for allowing a flawed seniority list to be used…. USAPA is doing their job and doing it well considering the adversity they've had to deal with.
I am sick of hearing "if we didn't like what our MEC was doing, we should have recalled their butts". Believe me we tried on many occasions. Once or twice we were successful, but more often than not we weren't. Paul Rice (ALPA National) stuck his face into local recalls when it appeared that ALPA loyalists were about to be canned. He also interfered and supported an attempt by the "let my Daddy vote" crowd to recall the reps who bucked the ALPA philosophy (give it all away and then some if at all possible!). That recall was unsuccessful. But ALPA national never forgot, and later went as far as to place those very officers into trusteeship, replacing them with ALPA sympathizers. What you don't seem to understand (and you are so wrapped up in your NIC windfall that I don't expect you to) is that getting rid of ALPA was not simply about the NIC. It was about events too numerous to mention. You guys had not even entered into this nightmare when it all started. We ultimately did do something... we voted ALPA out!
For any union to be effective every eligible member must join and all of those members must be on the same page. Because of the NIC award and USAPA's stance on DOH, even with fences and protections for the west pilots, the west pilots from the get go swore to destroy USAPA and some have conducted themselves in a most unprofessional manner (goat videos, hanging dolls in cockpits, feces sent through the US mail, jamming USAPA's phone lines). Yeah, I know "final and binding". The company loves this and knows that this pilot group will never reach a consensus on contract talks as long as it continues. (Company wins - pilots lose)
The west pilots have been fighting the east ever since this merger, not understanding that the west pilots will own this POS airline in less than 10 years. Most of us on the east are nearing the end of our careers and we have paid dearly for it. With all the major issues facing all pilots, east and west, the west are one trick ponies... their sole focus has been on the arbitration award... while standing by allowing all the other issues to fall by the wayside. I don't blame the west for fighting for the NIC, but what I do blame the west for is not participating, not joining and not also focusing on other issues which will have a profound affect on us all. You've got your precious NIC… (unless the appeals court says differently) now join and participate.
Lastly, as I said previously, LOA 93 was not a product of USAPA. Yes, it was inherited along with the rest of the ALPA crap. Yes, LOA 93 was a product of your beloved ALPA. Unfortunately, the ALPA spin machine was in full swing and any ALPA leader or line pilot who spoke against LOA 93 was instantly rebuffed by dear old ALPA. The end result was that 57% of the pilots who voted didn't know the true facts. Although it is difficult to find anyone who admits to voting yes on LOA 93, I can assure you that I was one of the 43% who voted a very definite NO.
Posted by clear direct
No USAPA did not create LOA 93. But after April 18, 2008 they are responsible for it. USAPA is to blame or at fault for anything that happens after that date. So far USAPA is no closer to a contract then we were 15 months ago.
So far USAPA has been unable and unwilling to deliver a new contract. If usapa continues to delay that primary function. But also continue to fail at the other basic duties of a union. What good is usapa? How long are you going to allow this current leadership to be a poor union?
If ALPA was unable to deliver a contract how long will you wait for USAPA to do their job?
Clear Direct, I just gotta ask.....how long have you been in this business anyway. Are you even remotely familiar with what happens when when our union shows up to negotiate with this management group, fully prepared to ge down to bussiness and move forward. Let me tell you. NOTHING. Whose (here is your favourite word) 'fault is that.
No USAPA did not create LOA 93. But after April 18, 2008 they are responsible for it. USAPA is to blame or at fault for anything that happens after that date. So far USAPA is no closer to a contract then we were 15 months ago.
So far USAPA has been unable and unwilling to deliver a new contract. If usapa continues to delay that primary function. But also continue to fail at the other basic duties of a union. What good is usapa? How long are you going to allow this current leadership to be a poor union?
If ALPA was unable to deliver a contract how long will you wait for USAPA to do their job?
Clear Direct, I just gotta ask.....how long have you been in this business anyway. Are you even remotely familiar with what happens when when our union shows up to negotiate with this management group, fully prepared to ge down to bussiness and move forward. Let me tell you. NOTHING. Whose (here is your favourite word) 'fault is that.
The initial version of LOA 93 was far superior to the current LOA you labor under. Your tough guys thought they could do better with the bankruptcy judge (against ALPA's recommendation) and were put in their place.
When they went running back to the table, the original offer was gone.
Nobody's fault but your own.
Nope.
They were offered but your MEC told the your MC not to take anything less than DOH or risk being removed from the committee.
Hawkhunter
Veteran
- Jul 11, 2005
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well if its not "I got mine" J.S. A PSA guy who got his by DOH. Your not going to PHX anytime soon. Most likely about the time you turn 65. I heard you made a fool of yourself yelling at a USAPA rep in front of PAX. Nice job J.
HP... it seems that the same ALPA loyalists who were spinning the BS then (the "get a deal, any deal... go to the ask" crowd), are whispering in your ear... and you've bought into it as well!... Don't feel too bad though, there was a time when 57% in the east believed the BS as well!
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