US Pilots Labor Topic-Aug 1-5

[EastUS]

No, USAPA did themselves proud by not having any remaining West entity and no means for even USAPA's PHX or LAS representatives to even consider it since they would potentially be acting against USAPA. Yup, all roads to having anyone represent West at this point would lead to even more lawsuits. Hell, there can't even be a vote of West folks at this point, the C&BL fixed that up.

I certainly understand the debacle presented in your post. The sorry truth is what's past is past, and my posted offer to the west has nothing to do with that, but is rather an effort at evidencing east sentiment for the west's understanding, based upon the current situation. Much posted on this board stems from apparently emotional impetus and fails to actually address any realistic issues. My suggested exercise was/is offered by way of some hope for a small bit of mutual understanding. The west dearly wants to fantasize that east resolve is collapsing/blah, blah/etc....ummm..sure. My point is that there are actually ZERO logical benefits/gains to be had for the east pilots in abandoning the appeals process, the quest for LOA93-84 resolution, etc. I feel that the west people are certainly capable of understanding this....so...their current position and propaganda output purely puzzles me......sort of

I find it of some minor interest that none yet seem ready or able to offer any direct response to what I'd think a very basic proposition of logic:

"Construct and offer up ANY reasonable and viable argument as to WHY any east pilot should/would actually want to deny themselves the right of appeal in the Addington case? Within said argument...I'd strongly suggest a well-defined presentation as to what's in completely surrendering that right of appeal for the east people?"

I suppose it could be put differently = I'd ask the west people to simply place themselves into east shoes for but a moment, and inquire of them whether or not they would pursue the appeal? Extra points for any honest responses from the west pilots

 

[Beancounter]

I have have to ask, was it just US Airways and AWA ALPA that sucked? I just went to a barbeque at a friend's house that is an Alaska pilot(ALPA). Our working conditions are pathetic compared to their's. Any one love our reduced rest overnights at an all inclusive resort in San Jose Del Cabo, followed by customs and three legs your last day. Alaska has a minimum of 20 hrs for overnights in Mexico. It's in their contract! Then there is the pay. I'm sorry to have to say this, but being stupid is really starting to hurt. When are we going to get serious about a contract. Seniority means nothing flying under a commuter airline contract. I mind as well have stayed a chief pilot at the commuter. Sorry to vent, but after listening to the quality of life at Alaska I'm just sick. Happy for my friend, but still sick.

 

[Richard]

MOD NOTE:

I just deleted 3 posts which related to a personal attack on another poster. The originator of the comment is gone for a week--would anyone else care to join him?

What part of "no personal remarks/attacks/insults" don't you people understand?

 

[captainJack]

First; How about a response to the following, equally absurd, perhaps even equally flat-out-insane BS then:

"We don't believe you", that the vast majority of westies are hard core nic supporters, and we demand a vote to prove that! We feel that any/all resources spent on examining west sentiment there would be brilliantly used! Immediately after that...since nothing any westie ever says about his/her group sentiment can be trusted..we'd all like a referendum on west feelings on global warming! If you don't agree that a vote on these issues is vital...then..you're all hiding something out west!

Good one!

 

[cleardirect]

Addendum: To what actual purpose? The results would be almost identical to a vote on whether or not it's a good idea to have the sun rise again in the morning. Is there truly any rational reason to waste resources for a vote on either?...other than to amuse or placate a bunch of westies that are largely non-members/non-payers? That rabid westies don't believe or simply can't understand that's of no actual importance. Nothing prevents any and all members in good standing from campaigning for a vote on anything. No matter really, as I get the contained (and amazing) west fantasy herein = "Hah!..the east is afraid to have a vote on the sun again rising!".."The west knows that the membership would actually insist on being thrown into eternal darkness!"

So according to you. You and the BPR know exactly what the entire group wants. No poll needed, no vote needed. Only what you want. So I guess now there is no need for a vote for anything.

One of the main selling points of usapa was it was more democratic. That reason is now gone. The appeal is an expensive and time consuming proposition. Usapa has admitted in court papers that as long as the appeal is working they will not got a contract. That decision will cost every us airways pilots a lot of money. Let alone more money going to Seham.

Where do you draw the line. If the company needs concessions on your contract or the T/A. Does the BPR just know what is good for the pilots? Are you now willing to accept what a small group decides? Why waste the money to vote on anything? What else are you willing to give up your right to vote?

I guess after so many years with ALPA the east leaders are unable to learn anything new. We are now back to an undemocratic protect me from myself union. It starts slowly. When the members accept one issue without vote. It becomes two then three. Eventually there is no need for a vote on anything other then elections.

 

[captainJack]

So according to you. You and the BPR know exactly what the entire group wants. No poll needed, no vote needed. Only what you want. So I guess now there is no need for a vote for anything.

One of the main selling points of usapa was it was more democratic. That reason is now gone. The appeal is an expensive and time consuming proposition. Usapa has admitted in court papers that as long as the appeal is working they will not got a contract. That decision will cost every us airways pilots a lot of money. Let alone more money going to Seham.

Where do you draw the line. If the company needs concessions on your contract or the T/A. Does the BPR just know what is good for the pilots? Are you now willing to accept what a small group decides? Why waste the money to vote on anything? What else are you willing to give up your right to vote?

I guess after so many years with ALPA the east leaders are unable to learn anything new. We are now back to an undemocratic protect me from myself union. It starts slowly. When the members accept one issue without vote. It becomes two then three. Eventually there is no need for a vote on anything other then elections.

Reaching like that only shows your 'pits. h34r:

 

[john john]

and that USAPA was formed to screw the west and get out of your agreements.

And why did US and HP file bankruptcy to get out of ? or “to screwâ€￾ and yes it is past history as time passes on the judge in Arizona

 

[cleardirect]

Judge Wake will attempt to follow the law, and if USAPA is liable for damages, then the group that USAPA represents will be responsbile. Judge Wake cannot go rewriting the RLA to suit the west pilots as much as you would like to spread that FUD (for which you are enormously famous.)

You know, I am having trouble finding the section of the RLA that addresses class action suits. Could you point the section out for us? Despite what Seham has been selling usapa and the east pilots. There are other laws that cover us besides the RLA.

 

[cleardirect]

Reaching like that only shows your 'pits. h34r:

What? I have no idea what that means.

By your non answer I guess that you do accept the BPR determining what happens without a vote. Lets hope that the leaders always agree with your position.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

And why did US and HP file bankruptcy to get out of ? or “to screwâ€￾ and yes it is past history as time passes on the judge in Arizona

:angry:


Not germane to the subject, a logical fallacy. Not talking about the company.

Again, what evidence do you all have that Wake is not an honorable judge? I'd like to hear it, I know his family and they are good people we all went to the same schools. If you have any disparaging info about Neil Wake, please present it.

And, stop trying to avoid the fact that USAPA was formed to weasel out of binding arbitration, an agreement that the east pilots made, and didn't have the stones to live up to.

 

[john john]

:angry:



And, stop trying to avoid the fact that USAPA was formed to weasel out of binding arbitration, an agreement that the east pilots made, and didn't have the stones to live up to.

And why did US and HP go into bankrupts? We are talking about weaseling out of prior comments

 

[Elevation]

And why did US and HP go into bankrupts? We are talking about weaseling out of prior comments

Filing bankruptcy is legal and within the law. What USAPA did was proven in a US District Court to be outside the law and were found liable.

 

[700UW]

JJ,

You are mixing the issue, there were many reasons why US filed for bankruptcy, mostly due to the lessors of the airplanes and credit card companies flexing their muscles not to work with US on doing business when US was bleeding cash.

Unfortunately, labor is the casualty when it happens.

Bottom line is USAPA was formed because the pilots on the east lost a binding arbitration case, and Bradford was shopping for lawyers to tell him what he wanted to hear, not reality, USAPA has done nothing to benefit the pilots but to divide and conquer and not focus on the real issue which is obtaining a new CBA.

 

[exB717Flyer]

What is APA bylaws language on merging seniority?

It's up to them. That simple.

The judge in Arizona is having a big impact on pilot seniority and applying it to RLA and unions and law. Any problems with future and present merging of pilot’s seniority on US property will be muck up by the judge in Arizona

Nope, it's the East that's done all the mucking. Are you supremely confident counselor Seham's interpretation of case law is superior to Judge Wake's?

 

[captainJack]

By your non answer I guess that you do accept the BPR determining what happens without a vote. Lets hope that the leaders always agree with your position.

Did you ask a question?