US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/18-6/23-Stay on Topic and Observe the Rules

[nycbusdriver]

The east is placing a lot of stock in your pay rate snapback. If that does not happen. Odds close to 100 %. Then guess what? You also remain at your current rates and scheduling nightmare.




I would put those odds close to zero. For so many reasons. One reason being a trial is at least 9-12 months off. If it even survives that long.

As I said before. I think the MDA guys are in for another disappointment.

You are quite a prognosticator. Did you ever consider that you might be wrong on all counts? Any counts? It sounds to me like you think the outcome is assured already. The truth is, it's far from assured and far from over.

If the east pilots don't prevail on LOA 84 pay rates, there may be movement but I doubt it. We're so pissed off on the east that I think many of us would rather endure LOA 93 forever than give you folks an inch. I'm not certain you factored that into your rosy scenario.

 

[prechilill]

We're so pissed off on the east that I think many of us would rather endure LOA 93 forever than give you folks an inch. I'm not certain you factored that into your rosy scenario.

Have you ever considered you (plural) are unreasonable?

 

[hp_fa]

When a leadership doesnt have the guts to be honest with the membership and stand up to the mob, then the mob rules.

What a magnificent sentence.

 

[john john]

Technically, the NMB says that US Airways is a single transportation system and that USAPA represents all the pilots, not that the pilots aren't divided into groups.

That aside, however, what I meant was one or another group of US pilots. US pilots can be divided into groups any number of ways - capt or f/o, base, equipment, pre-merger carrier, military/civilian background, etc. Even those who've made water landings or not. Any criteria that divides the total group into subgroups will do, and subgroup is probably what I should have said instead of group.

Jim

Do you mean classifications of representation?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Have you ever considered you (plural) are unreasonable?

Right back at ya.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Perhaps said "captain" was simply evidencing his hearty excess of personal "Integrity"....?

Integrity, that is what you have when you abide by the binding arbitration that you agreed to abide to.
East created an entire union to get out of its agreements and to screw the west. And you are surprised the west is a bit surly?

 

[cleardirect]

You are quite a prognosticator. Did you ever consider that you might be wrong on all counts? Any counts? It sounds to me like you think the outcome is assured already. The truth is, it's far from assured and far from over.

If the east pilots don't prevail on LOA 84 pay rates, there may be movement but I doubt it. We're so pissed off on the east that I think many of us would rather endure LOA 93 forever than give you folks an inch. I'm not certain you factored that into your rosy scenario.

Yes! I have considered if I am wrong on one or all counts. Have you? Yes! I am fairly certain about the outcome. So far my scenarios have been more right then yours.

When you do not prevail on snap backs there will be movement. Why do we have to wait that long. Thank you for admitting or recognizing usapa strategy. Promise the angry east anything to delay. Yes you admitted you are the angry east.

That is a sad statement about the east. That you are so pissed off that you will not give an inch. That you would rather be angry then to think about moving forward. That your emotions have so taken over you and the east that we all suffer. trying to hold your inch may cause you to lose the entire game. How did not giving an inch during arbitration work for you?

Have you figured into your scenario that the east is not the only ones with a say? There are other factors involved in this. The company could change the dynamics. The federal court is going to have an effect. The T/A disputes could change the situation. The economy may have more to say about things then the “pissed offâ€￾ east pilots.

Arrogance has brought down many.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

About the only thing I've seen that the east has been right about since 05 is the fact that they got the cards. I used to take alot of the east pontificating seriously, and worry about it, figuring we out west were outgunned. Now, all I see is the big bad wolf huffing and puffing.

 

[prechilill]

Right back at ya.

It was a question, not a statement. But I guess you couldn't understand that. I must admit I am quite surprised at your open admission as to how unreasonable you (plural) are. Additionally, it takes a lot to admit a shortcoming, and although you are not quite there, the fact you even acknowledged your deep anger is a step in the right direction. How you cope with it, though, is the real issue. A philosopher once opined that his life was 10% of what actually happened to him and 90% of how he reacted. These are pretty profound words and directly applicable to somebody like you your friends. Believe me, the west understood the easties a long time ago, but now at least Piney Bob will understand more about your unreasonable behavior and stale beliefs you live by. Your admission about your deeply seeded anger certainly is telling, and explains why you are the way you are. I hope you can grow as a person and your anger doesn't put in to an early compromised state- I sincerely mean this. Best wishes to all.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Do you mean classifications of representation?

No, subgroups of the larger group which are differentiated by some characteristic.

Do you mean that a union can chose to represent one subgroup more than another or even to the exclusion of another without risking DFR merely because it's a union (legally protected minorities aside)?

Jim

 

[EastUS]

Integrity, that is what you have when you abide by the binding arbitration that you agreed to abide to.
East created an entire union to get out of its agreements and to screw the west. And you are surprised the west is a bit surly?

What utterly adolescent, and totally predicatable BS. Integrity is what you have when you treat others properly within the workplace, regardless of any/all personal feelings. Integrity is what you have when you refuse to conduct yourself as a petulant and dyspeptic teenager, and completely disrespect the flying profession itself in the process. Integrity is what you have when you do what's Right when dealing with coworkers...regardless of however "surly" you may feel. Integrity is what you have when you place your principles above your personal whims.

Individual pilots flying the line had nothing to do with any arbitration. Only the utmost of completely immature fools would ever seek to imagine themselves as gloriously replete with "integrity" by way of such dealings.

What CAN be done is for all to conduct themselves like supposed professionals, and not sorry little children....but..that would require some actual integrity.

 

[EastUS]

Yes! I am fairly certain about the outcome. So far my scenarios have been more right then yours.

Arrogance has brought down many.

 

[nycbusdriver]

It was a question, not a statement. But I guess you couldn't understand that. I must admit I am quite surprised at your open admission as to how unreasonable you (plural) are. Additionally, it takes a lot to admit a shortcoming, and although you are not quite there, the fact you even acknowledged your deep anger is a step in the right direction. How you cope with it, though, is the real issue. A philosopher once opined that his life was 10% of what actually happened to him and 90% of how he reacted. These are pretty profound words and directly applicable to somebody like you your friends. Believe me, the west understood the easties a long time ago, but now at least Piney Bob will understand more about your unreasonable behavior and stale beliefs you live by. Your admission about your deeply seeded anger certainly is telling, and explains why you are the way you are. I hope you can grow as a person and your anger doesn't put in to an early compromised state- I sincerely mean this. Best wishes to all.

Oh, well. Time to throw in the towel if we've disillusioned Piney Bob.

We were not prepared for that eventuality and would do anything to keep him placated and us in his good graces.

I vote Nic! NOT!

I'm not personally angry at all with the Nic, because it doesn't directly affect me. I'm angry at the arrogant, taunting, puerile behavior I've seen from the west from day one. Look at the PHX versus the CLT pilot town hall meetings. That alone is enough to make me sick at the thought of ever sharing a cockpit with a west pilot, just on the chance that I would get one of your 5% a**h***s.

 

[EastUS]

It was a question, not a statement. But I guess you couldn't understand that. I must admit I am quite surprised at your open admission as to how unreasonable you (plural) are. Additionally, it takes a lot to admit a shortcoming, and although you are not quite there, the fact you even acknowledged your deep anger is a step in the right direction. How you cope with it, though, is the real issue. A philosopher once opined that his life was 10% of what actually happened to him and 90% of how he reacted. These are pretty profound words and directly applicable to somebody like you your friends. Believe me, the west understood the easties a long time ago, but now at least Piney Bob will understand more about your unreasonable behavior and stale beliefs you live by. Your admission about your deeply seeded anger certainly is telling, and explains why you are the way you are. I hope you can grow as a person and your anger doesn't put in to an early compromised state- I sincerely mean this. Best wishes to all.

Hmmm....While I'm unable to quickly see how that posting addresses any pertinent issues....I'll certainly accept the idea that somebody "needs help" with anger issues :blink:

 

[nic4us]

Have you ever considered you (plural) are unreasonable?

This thought has crossed my mind many times.

Is it unreasonable for me to agree with an arbitrated ruling, that moves me slightly backward but in general maintains my expectations? I would say no not really.

Is it unreasonable for an east pilot to disagree with the same ruling, because they feel it shattered their expectations? I would say no not really.

I would say what is unreasonable is the same east pilot blameing the Nic for those shattered expectations. The Nic is the manifestation of those expectations being shattered before AWA was in the picture.

I am sure D. Collelo is a fine person, but the day before the merger he had no expectation of a fast track to a captain seat, or if he would get one in his career again at all. For Collelo or any junior east F/O or furloughed pilot to blame the Nic for not putting 1400+ West pilots holding positions senior to their's below them, is not only unreasonable but down right ludicrous.

With the Nic intact, pilots who would have requalified and upgraded will still get to the captain seat. Pilots who would not, most likely will not it, it is blunt but it is not the fault of the Nic.