US Pilots labor thread 5/3-

[CallawayGolf]

It is my opinion the 9th will render a decision, that Wake was involved in an internal union dispute. I absolutely believe this. There is no way Wake should have been this involved. That being said. You are going to someday see a contract here, maybe in 2 yrs. In that contract will be the DOH seniority, with conditions and restrictions.

Wow that is an indescribable level of optimism on par with Evel Knievel thinking he could jump the Snake River or believing that the Titanic was unsinkable.

Train Wreck - the picture just kind of says USAPA doesn't it?

Seriously what do you think the 9th is likely to rule on? Do you hope that they will rule in such a way as to force the company and the US pilots to accept DOH and nothing else? The NIC and DOH wasn’t on trial in the district court much less at the 9th but you seem to be suggesting that they will rule in such a way to put DOH on the fast track to ratification in spite of any legal basis for doing so (even if the NIC was on trial which it wasn’t). Good luck with that (or not).

 

[Black Swan]

Wow that is an indescribable level of optimism on par with Evel Knievel thinking he could jump the Snake River or believing that the Titanic was unsinkable.

Train Wreck - the picture just kind of says USAPA doesn't it?

Seriously what do you think the 9th is likely to rule on? Do you hope that they will rule in such a way as to force the company and the US pilots to accept DOH and nothing else? The NIC and DOH wasn’t on trial in the district court much less at the 9th but you seem to be suggesting that they will rule in such a way to put DOH on the fast track to ratification in spite of any legal basis for doing so (even if the NIC was on trial which it wasn’t). Good luck with that (or not).

Most likely a new trial. Or thrown back our until actual damage takes place, it ever does.

 

[Black Swan]

And you missed the whole point with Evel. He never thought he would actually jump it. It's called a publicity stunt.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Most likely a new trial. Or thrown back our until actual damage takes place, it ever does.

So how do either of those scenarios get a DOH contract in place in two years? Your logic doesn't compute.

 

[CallawayGolf]

And you missed the whole point with Evel. He never thought he would actually jump it. It's called a publicity stunt.

A publicity stunt that came within feet of having him land in the river and drown. At least he came out far better than USAPA ever will even if it was a really stupid and poorly executed publicity stunt. Kind of like a big USA Today ad that I recall.

 

[Metroyet]

This is exactly why your group is where it is. The greed is so palpable, the judgement of humans working for a company, yet cast aside for the want of another. Unbelievable. And you don't even work here, yet carry this flame. The only crime is the thought that one deserves what you so plainly evidence. A 17 yr. pilot is merely a discard for the career path of another of your choosing.

When a victim defends himself, it usually isn't described as "greed". Only in the bizzaro world of old US Air.

 

[cleardirect]

Yeah, what a bunch of pilots. Imagine, getting a little upset when a 17 yr. pilot with no furlough goes behind a new hire. You are right, there is nothing wrong with that. Pilots at other airlines want nothing to do with us? Until they hear what really happened. Then they understand the real meaning of the West greed!

What do the other pilots say when you tell them that an arbitrator decided not the west pilots like usapa wants? That the east agreed to binding arbitration but have failed to live up to your deal. What do they say when you tell them that usapa has been found liable of DFR?


Take it up with Nicolau if you still have a problem. It is time to get over this.

 

[Freebird]

Major miscalculation, but if it makes you feel better, believe it.

Major miscalculation? How so? If Cleary and his thugs are so 'supremely confident', why dont they back it up and put a contract out to vote on? I've already told you the answer...He's scared. He knows that the East pilots are tired of his circus and will vote in a new contract and move on.

Prove me wrong.

And (Phoenix) call Cleary and you boys get us a contract to vote on. And then I'll call you when I have a ballot....if thats what you like. Your 'union' is delaying your quality lifestyle.

NRBAGFY

 

[Freebird]

It is my opinion the 9th will render a decision, that Wake was involved in an internal union dispute. I absolutely believe this. There is no way Wake should have been this involved. That being said. You are going to someday see a contract here, maybe in 2 yrs. In that contract will be the DOH seniority, with conditions and restrictions.

Did your Secret decoder ring tell you that? You are wrong on so many levels. But it does provide good entertainment. Cant wait until we fly together and I get to listen to you complain to the F/A's, the van driver, the hotel staff.....remember one thing. They dont care.

DOH will never happen. Look around, DOH isn't an accepted form of integration these days; DAL/NW, UAL/CAL. And your C/R's are a joke. Time to trade in your Secret decoder ring...or maybe Cleary will keep letting you use his.

Secret Squirrel, out.

NRBAGFY

 

[cleardirect]

I had a couple of UAL jumpseat riders (separate flights and dates) during the '99/'00 merger dance. They were of the opinion it would go DOH with fences, conditions and restrictions.

Were they misinformed?

More recently, the overtures your pilot group has made regarding national seniority and statements regarding the importance of longevity in merger scenarios seem to contradict your repudiation of DOH principles.

The UAL pilots have gotten older since 1991. They are beginning to look at longevity with a different perspective.

Do I need to point out the big flaw in your argument? First it was 10 years ago.

Their opinion just like my opinion or your opinion don’t mean jack. It is the opinion of the arbitrator. You know the neutral third party person that does not have a dog in the fight and that is hired to find a fair solution. That is what we agreed to do because between all of us we could not agree so our opinion did not matter.

The second flaw. Who cares what overtures anyone has or has not made? Our arbitration is done and set in stone. If ALPA decided to change their merger policy to reverse birth dates tomorrow so what? That has nothing to do with how we did our list.

You guys keep casting around desperate for the smallest straw to grasp a hold of. We all went into this eye wide open and agreed to the process not the outcome. The list has now been released for three years. It is time for all of you east guys to come to grips with the facts that the list is not going anywhere. That usapa and Seham lied to you and that the little experiment in temper tantrums has been a waste of time money and effort.

 

[nic4us]

If you are inferring the East pilots broke the law, then cite the specific statute please.

What would be the specific statute that covers giving misinformation under oath, on the witness stand?

I am pretty certain that specific individuals would not have understood the arbitration process only binding upon the merger committe members, had the arbitrator granted their proposal in his ruling.

Further, what would be the specific statute that covers filing a SLAP lawsuit against your opponents, in an attempt to proactively deny them finances, to keep them from filing suit against you for your questionable ( and most likely illegal) behavior? I do not think there is a statute for this in federal law, but there are plenty of states that have it, and usapa has members in plenty of states, who are among the Cactus 18.

 

[nic4us]

"Hurting a group of totally innocent West pilots...." Are these the innocents who walked into basic indoc and then went ahead of a guy with 17 years of uninterrupted service? Give us a break.

No, the new hires who were at the bottom of the West list, and are at the bottom of the Nic list, and are now furloughed out of seniority. Walked into a new job, never expecting to have to come up with money to have to sue a fake union over its attempt at stealing their new job and the seniority of those pilots who had been at their (AWA)new company for say 15 or 20 years of uninterupted service, so that the new fake union could give that job and their co-workers seniority to a bottom of the seniority list pilot, who may or may not have had uninterupted service, and in most instances had much less LOS than a west pilot with a similar DOH, and may or may not have even been employed at the time of the merger.

Further, some of those innocent West pilots, who had say 20 years uninterupted LOS at the merger date, who lost very large percentages of their seniority in the Nic, are caught having to pay to sue the fake union to uphold an arbitrated award to keep the fake union from stealing what is left of their seniority and the chance to re-coup what they had in the past, if they still even have 5-8 years left to do it.

You east posters who continually distort the facts of what happened here lose credibility with each embellished non-sensical post.

 

[cleardirect]

Yeah, what a bunch of pilots. Imagine, getting a little upset when a 17 yr. pilot with no furlough goes behind a new hire. You are right, there is nothing wrong with that. Pilots at other airlines want nothing to do with us? Until they hear what really happened. Then they understand the real meaning of the West greed!

So after you tell them your amazing story other pilots are excited about merging us then? No, they all understand what happened and DON'T want to merge with the east. To bad the west is stuck with you guys in the next possible merger.

Here is what the united merger committee has to say about that 16.5 year guy going behind a new hire. I think that UAL disagrees with you and they "heard" and understand what happened with our integration.

When we first met as a committee, we realized that one of the greatest challenges we would face was our work on behalf of our furloughed pilots. Past seniority integration arbitration awards have generally placed at least some pilots on furlough as of the date of the merger announcement at the bottom of the integrated list. While past decisions aren’t “binding” on future cases – each of which will turn on its own facts - and while ALPA Merger Policy has changed since those decisions were issued, we would be less than candid with you if we did not point out this historical treatment of furloughed pilots in seniority list integration arbitrations

Anyone from the east MC tell you guys this was a possibility?

 

[Freebird]

Right on ....just like "We are the laughing stock and every one thinks we are wrong" ....right up until until the point where you splain
that a new hire was placed senior to a 17 year guy who never missed a paycheck. I tell my people this,

You work for an accounting firm that works 7 days a week. there are two of you, someone will work on weekends. You and your co-worker have been there 20 years and 15 years respectively. You merge with another accounting firm who has 2 workers and have been there 5 years and 10 years respectively, now: WHO WORKS WEEKENDS????????

100% OF THE TIME MY PEEPS GET IT RIGHT, INCLUDING MY 8 YEAR OLD GRANDAUGHTER.

VNIIMN
NPJB

Maybe its time you stop lying to yourself, your family, your friends and your co-workers.

Your leadership failed you getting DOH. Nicolau told them it wouldnt happen. It didnt. Why is this so hard for you to grasp?
Now you are letting Usapa fail you.

How does the saying go? "Fool me once, shame on you...Fool me twice, Shame on me." Fool me Three times, and I must be a part of a failed union called Usapa...

 

[767jetz]

I had a couple of UAL jumpseat riders (separate flights and dates) during the '99/'00 merger dance. They were of the opinion it would go DOH with fences, conditions and restrictions.

Were they misinformed?

Absolutely, they were misinformed. Or they were trying not to "rock the boat" during their free ride on your jet.

I went to all the ALPA meetings back then. I attended the roadshows. DOH was a non-starter for the UAL pilots then, as it is now. There was definitely talk about fencing off our 747's and 777 for eternity. Back then some of the US pilots were trying to claim that the A330 was equivalent to our 777's in order to capture some of those seats.

Fast forward to today, and UAL ALPA is clearly communicating that DOH is nowhere in the merger policy and should not be expected. They are also being honest in their communication to us about furloughs, and that while the merger committee will work diligently to protect ALL UAL pilots including the furloughed ones, historically furloughs do go at the bottom. Kudos to them for being honest, realistic, and not setting people up with unrealistic expectations... Evidence that each airline's ALPA group is made up of pilots from their own ranks, and ALPA NAtional is not he boogey man.