US Pilots labor thread 5/3-

[luvthe9]

How does ANY of this matter? You're leaving out 99.998% of the rest of the story. It's called a lie by omission. No need to rehash. You know how it was supposed to work, you know what was agreed to, you know binding meant binding and you know that it's not going to change as well...ever. Being that this is NEVER going to go away, (because of the 99.998% you're consistently forgetting) wouldn't it make sense to make a real effort to get a better contract? Aside from yourself, and a group of totally innocent West pilots, who the hell do you think you're hurting? What do you think you're gaining by delay?

All I see are a group of rabidly emotional, irrational people who do nothing but continually self inflict wounds with the certainty that it's "progress".

"Hurting a group of totally innocent West pilots...." Are these the innocents who walked into basic indoc and then went ahead of a guy with 17 years of uninterrupted service? Give us a break.

 

[luvthe9]

We are the dumbest group of pilots on the planet.

We fight to keep the worst contract in the industry while refusing to see that we are wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

No wonder pilots at the other airlines want nothing to do with us.

Yeah, what a bunch of pilots. Imagine, getting a little upset when a 17 yr. pilot with no furlough goes behind a new hire. You are right, there is nothing wrong with that. Pilots at other airlines want nothing to do with us? Until they hear what really happened. Then they understand the real meaning of the West greed!

 

[Black Swan]

Try asking the more accurate version of the same question.

Who works weekends at your company............? Answer..................the guy on the bottom. ( this is easy right!!)

Merge 2 companies...............who is going to work weekends?.....................Answer..............the guy on the bottom of both companies (more work to be done)

Bottom guy from company 1 (not bankrupt) is a new hire, Bottom guy on company 2 (bankrupt, weeks from shutdown) is a 17 year employee.

Both guys WERE on the bottom and are STILL on the bottom. Career expectations which are to be considered, have been preserved. Though in one employee they have been extended beyond what was expected before the Merge, but hey good for him.


Flip

Yes, and the East pilot is 10-15ys. older, and gets to stay on the bottom, forever. Meanwhile the west pilot moves up after the retirements from the east, and moves through all aircraft to the top. We know how this works, No thank you.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Yeah, what a bunch of pilots. Imagine, getting a little upset when a 17 yr. pilot with no furlough goes behind a new hire. You are right, there is nothing wrong with that. Pilots at other airlines want nothing to do with us? Until they hear what really happened. Then they understand the real meaning of the West greed!

I get a little upset too when the government spends money that my future grandchildren and great grandchildren will have to pay, or when they tell kids that they are forbidden from honoring the American flag on May 5th, or declare the National Day of Prayer unconstitutional, but I don't go out and break the law, or take my anger out on innocent people, or withdraw $10,000 from the bank and burn it just to show how upset I am when things don't go the way I would have preferred. USAPA is the east pilot’s outlet for a group temper tantrum which is gaining them nothing and costing them not only substantial sums of money, but also has destroyed any sense of honor and personal integrity they may have had before all of this began. Justice will prevail and the USAPA supporters will have worse than nothing to show for their futile attempt to skirt around the law when all is said and done.

 

[luvthe9]

I get a little upset too when the government spends money that my future grandchildren and great grandchildren will have to pay, or when they tell kids that they are forbidden from honoring the American flag on May 5th, or declare the National Day of Prayer unconstitutional, but I don't go out and break the law, or take my anger out on innocent people, or withdraw $10,000 from the bank and burn it just to show how upset I am when things don't go the way I would have preferred. USAPA is the east pilot’s outlet for a group temper tantrum which is gaining them nothing and costing them not only substantial sums of money, but also has destroyed any sense of honor and personal integrity they may have had before all of this began. Justice will prevail and the USAPA supporters will have worse than nothing to show for their futile attempt to skirt around the law when all is said and done.

If you are inferring the East pilots broke the law, then cite the specific statute please.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Yes, and the East pilot is 10-15ys. older, and gets to stay on the bottom, forever. Meanwhile the west pilot moves up after the retirements from the east, and moves through all aircraft to the top. We know how this works, No thank you.

You speak as though you still have a choice in all of this. You (collectively) abandoned your right to choose when you allowed this issue to go to final and binding arbitration. The award will stand regardless of what you think of the award or what you would prefer to happen. Well, I guess you do have a choice – stay employed at US or quit and move on. DOH is not an option available to you for the rest of your career at this airline.

 

[Black Swan]

You speak as though you still have a choice in all of this. You (collectively) abandoned your right to choose when you allowed this issue to go to final and binding arbitration. The award will stand regardless of what you think of the award or what you would prefer to happen. Well, I guess you do have a choice – stay employed at US or quit and move on. DOH is not an option available to you for the rest of your career at this airline.

It is my opinion the 9th will render a decision, that Wake was involved in an internal union dispute. I absolutely believe this. There is no way Wake should have been this involved. That being said. You are going to someday see a contract here, maybe in 2 yrs. In that contract will be the DOH seniority, with conditions and restrictions.

 

[CallawayGolf]

If you are inferring the East pilots broke the law, then cite the specific statute please.

Duty of fair representation is the legal duty of a union to equally, and in good faith, represent every employee in a bargaining unit, regardless of whether the employee is a union member or not. This legal duty arises out of the exclusive representative status unions hold under the National Labor Relations Act. A breach of the statutory duty of fair representation occurs only when a union's conduct toward a member of the collective bargaining unit is arbitrary, discriminatory, or in bad faith.

The duty of fair representation requires that a union represent all workers equally and without prejudice. A union cannot refuse to represent or improperly represent a worker due to the worker’s age, race, creed, nationality, sex, religion, political beliefs, union status or personality. If a union fails to represent a worker due to prejudice or hostility the union can be held liable. Its purpose is to ensure that the course of action in any grievance case will be determined by the merits of the grievance, and not by the merits of the grievant. The union may refuse to file or process a grievance for any number of reasons so long as they are valid, however it may not arbitrarily refuse to process a meritorious grievance or decline to proceed to arbitration because of hostility to the grievant or irrelevant and ill-motivated reasons.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/d/duty-of-fair-representation/

 

[Piedmont1984]

What on earth is taking the 9th Circuit so long to render a decision? If I am not mistaken, it took less time for Moses to bring down the Ten Commandments, or the crafting of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, or the Magna Carta.

Is it the judges - or did they make a ruling some time ago and the clerks have been fiddling with the language ever since?

Can the court announce a ruling now, with support language to follow?

Do I have to call them myself ?

 

[767jetz]

Yeah, what a bunch of pilots. Imagine, getting a little upset when a 17 yr. pilot with no furlough goes behind a new hire. You are right, there is nothing wrong with that. Pilots at other airlines want nothing to do with us? Until they hear what really happened. Then they understand the real meaning of the West greed!

Incorrect. We know what happened to both sides before and after the merger. For many of us it was a repeat of the same attitudes and script that was starting to play out in the 2000 attempted merger with UA. Now, those that still don't know exactly what happened, but have read the recent summary from the UAlL MEC regarding past, present, and future mergers also understand. Why do you think the UA pilots came out so strongly against a merger with US, EVERY TIME? Why do you think there was such outrage by DL employees to a merger between US and DL? Do you think it would be any different with AA employees? Jet Blue? Airtran? Southwest?

 

[Piedmont1984]

Incorrect. We know what happened to both sides before and after the merger. For many of us it was a repeat of the same attitudes and script that was starting to play out in the 2000 attempted merger with UA. Now, those that still don't know exactly what happened, but have read the recent summary from the UAlL MEC regarding past, present, and future mergers also understand. Why do you think the UA pilots came out so strongly against a merger with US, EVERY TIME? Why do you think there was such outrage by DL employees to a merger between US and DL? Do you think it would be any different with AA employees? Jet Blue? Airtran? Southwest?

I had a couple of UAL jumpseat riders (separate flights and dates) during the '99/'00 merger dance. They were of the opinion it would go DOH with fences, conditions and restrictions.

Were they misinformed?

More recently, the overtures your pilot group has made regarding national seniority and statements regarding the importance of longevity in merger scenarios seem to contradict your repudiation of DOH principles.

The UAL pilots have gotten older since 1991. They are beginning to look at longevity with a different perspective.

 

[Flippin43]

What on earth is taking the 9th Circuit so long to render a decision? If I am not mistaken, it took less time for Moses to bring down the Ten Commandments, or the crafting of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, or the Magna Carta.

Is it the judges - or did they make a ruling some time ago and the clerks have been fiddling with the language ever since?

Can the court announce a ruling now, with support language to follow?

Do I have to call them myself ?

K,

It's my understanding that they can issue a Memorandom Ruling with the opinion following later. Why they haven't done this, who knows. Not staying the Injunction seems very telling though.

Not sure calling will work, it would be nice if it did. seham tried and look how that worked out. Full on Denial of staying the injunction.


Flip

 

[Metroyet]

"Hurting a group of totally innocent West pilots...." Are these the innocents who walked into basic indoc and then went ahead of a guy with 17 years of uninterrupted service? Give us a break.

Yes. That's exactly the group i'm talking about. They're also the ones who bargained in good faith, entered binding arbitration and played by ALL the rules. They're also the ones who should have had a much improved contract years ago. It's the same group that has been in Sec. 6 for years but their new FAKE union, refuses to honor sec. 6. refuses to drop a lawsuit that is aimed to intimidate and bankrupt their OWN pilots, on and on and on.

West pilots are nothing but victims of a crime. I believe there is a court record that would support that idea.

Cry me a river. If most pilots had 17 years notice that theirs careers were going nowhere, I think most reasonable people would have acted on that information. Some didn't. Maybe for good reasons too. Either way, Tough S... The bottom is the bottom is the bottom.

 

[Black Swan]

Yes. That's exactly the group i'm talking about. They're also the ones who bargained in good faith, entered binding arbitration and played by ALL the rules. They're also the ones who should have had a much improved contract years ago. It's the same group that has been in Sec. 6 for years but their new FAKE union, refuses to honor sec. 6. refuses to drop a lawsuit that is aimed to intimidate and bankrupt their OWN pilots, on and on and on.

West pilots are nothing but victims of a crime. I believe there is a court record that would support that idea.

Cry me a river. If most pilots had 17 years notice that theirs careers were going nowhere, I think most reasonable people would have acted on that information. Some didn't. Maybe for good reasons too. Either way, Tough S... The bottom is the bottom is the bottom.

This is exactly why your group is where it is. The greed is so palpable, the judgement of humans working for a company, yet cast aside for the want of another. Unbelievable. And you don't even work here, yet carry this flame. The only crime is the thought that one deserves what you so plainly evidence. A 17 yr. pilot is merely a discard for the career path of another of your choosing.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

This is exactly why your group is where it is. The greed is so palpable, the judgement of humans working for a company, yet cast aside for the want of another. Unbelievable. And you don't even work here, yet carry this flame. The only crime is the thought that one deserves what you so plainly evidence. A 17 yr. pilot is merely a discard for the career path of another of your choosing.

Ignoring a binding arbitration that was agreed to by the east is a pretty greedy act.