US Pilots Labor Thread 5/13-19--NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[nic4us]

Read the Nicolau "AWARD" section word for word. Understand the bargaining rights of USAPA under the RLA, the voting rights of the pilots and how the contract regulates seniority.......The court ruling has not solved and will slightly complicate the multiple fairness issues to be addressed in the CBA.

The positive side is most West pilots will join the union now and pay back dues to asssure their voting rights to protect their interests. That is the extent of their "victory".

An appeal may be fun but not really necessary.

underpants

The court ruling will be instrumental in solving the discriminatory practices USAPA has tried to employ against the West. As you say it will complicate any attempts to continue bad faith bargaining. An aside, we have not heard from the company yet, not all that sure they will bargain your "fairness" issues, risking bad faith.

You are probably correct that most West pilots will join, but the jury is still out on the question of when dues became enforceable. Also, remedy has not been determined yet, we will know next week. Finally, damages trial is set for Aug 2009. I am thinking there will be some. I am thinking at the very least USAPA will pay West legal fees, and no West members owe dues until remedy is instituted.

An appeal would be neither fun nor necessary, it will however be even more expensive for USAPA to pursue as I am pretty certain you lose that and you definitely pay West legal fees.

 

[nic4us]

Read the Nicolau "AWARD" section word for word....It doesn't say what the west pilots assume it says.
underpants

Just reread the Nicolau "AWARD" and it still says just what I thought it said.

 

[N924PS]

Both sides are within their rights to block any progress and that means no possibility for a joint contract. Must we waste more time going through the motions? Negotiate 2 identical contracts with seperate ops, seperate seniority, seperate growth etc... Many questions would have to be answered but don't waste any more time telling me why It will be Nicolau or DOH because it will never be either.

Hmmmm...wasn't ALPA pursuing a "seperate operations" strategy before the USAPA experiment derailed the effort?

Can any USAPA member really say they are better off today than they were under ALPA? From where I sit the answer is an unequivocal NO!

 

[nycbusdriver]

Hmmmm...wasn't ALPA pursuing a "seperate operations" strategy before the USAPA experiment derailed the effort?

Can any USAPA member really say they are better off today than they were under ALPA? From where I sit the answer is an unequivocal NO!

From where I sit, it's an unequivocal YES!

 

[700UW]

. It is obvious that the defendants were setting up for the Appeals Court process from the beginning, this venue disregards local emotion and politics and will apply the law to its decision.

Keep your checkbooks handy, there is a long road ahead.

I might be wrong but I might be right,, iof that was their plan was not to defend the suit and go for an aappeal, sounds like a legal malpractice suit to me against Seeham and USAPA.

Anyone with expertise care to chime in?

 

[EastUS]

Can any USAPA member really say they are better off today than they were under ALPA? From where I sit the answer is an unequivocal NO!

Yes. Whatever else is true; I'm extremely pleased to be rid of the completely corrupt Alpa cancer.

It's worth noting that; "From where I sit", in this case, would be the position of a very senior commuter, who wishes to bid into west flying, is personally not effected by the Nic in any way, shape or form, and sadly, appears to be seated within a viewing posture solely based upon self interest.

 

[700UW]

What if both sides are in sectuon 6, both sides reach an impasse the company imposses a new CBA contaning NIC, you can walk or work, get a 90 degree colling off period and have congress legistate uou contract so it can happen.

Better be careful what who wish for!

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

It is obvious that the defendants were setting up for the Appeals Court process from the beginning,...

Keep your checkbooks handy, there is a long road ahead.

Now that is a strategy !

Already accept defeat but plan for future defeat.

Were you the one that said that DFR was very difficult to prove?

 

[hp_fa]

I might be wrong but I might be right,, iof that was their plan was not to defend the suit and go for an aappeal, sounds like a legal malpractice suit to me against Seeham and USAPA.

Yes and no. How can you have a legal malpractice suite against an unincorporated association?

Seham had way too much at stake as far as possible future clientele to tank one on purpose.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Seham needs to be litigating sexual harrassment suits, the sooner the better. For all of us. He will be eventually, the question is how much more damage are we going to let him do to us in the meantime?

 

[ChockJockey]

Dear Sir or Ma'am:

I would like to extend my sincerest congratulations or condolences on your recent legal victory or defeat. I have been following The Passion of the Pilots for some time and it's obvious to me that the West or East is clearly in the right and most justified for feeling the way they do.

That said, if it isn't too much I'd humbly request that you take a minute from your Federal Circuit Clash of the Titans and shift your gaze downward upon the other 27,000 individuals that also happen to work in this airline who are ready to move forward to make US somewhat respectable. Many of us are stuck here in hostile work environments and humiliated by the dictates of management, held hostage by the vast and seemingly unceasing self-righteousness and selfishness of our pilot group(s).

I know it must be great being part of an Epic Struggle(tm) what with all the grabbing of headlines and the High School drama in the terminals. There was a time when there was a general interest among many in the goings on of your disputes, but it's long since devolved into a silly and embarrassing blight on this airline (and dare I say your profession and career?), wasting much, going nowhere, and hopelessly rife with mean, pedantic inanities.

Some of us are ready to get to work on making this airline live up to its potential. If your spat ends up being fatal to US then I think the lot of you who would rather sink the ship than see it sail away from your direction will deserve to be as bitter and unhappy as you now seem, and as unemployable as you will be.

And that's the view from under the wing.

Best wishes,
ChockJockey

 

[nycbusdriver]

Dear Sir or Ma'am:

I would like to extend my sincerest congratulations or condolences on your recent legal victory or defeat. I have been following The Passion of the Pilots for some time and it's obvious to me that the West or East is clearly in the right and most justified for feeling the way they do.

That said, if it isn't too much I'd humbly request that you take a minute from your Federal Circuit Clash of the Titans and shift your gaze downward upon the other 27,000 individuals that also happen to work in this airline who are ready to move forward to make US somewhat respectable. Many of us are stuck here in hostile work environments and humiliated by the dictates of management, held hostage by the vast and seemingly unceasing self-righteousness and selfishness of our pilot group(s).

I know it must be great being part of an Epic Struggle(tm) what with all the grabbing of headlines and the High School drama in the terminals. There was a time when there was a general interest among many in the goings on of your disputes, but it's long since devolved into a silly and embarrassing blight on this airline (and dare I say your profession and career?), wasting much, going nowhere, and hopelessly rife with mean, pedantic inanities.

Some of us are ready to get to work on making this airline live up to its potential. If your spat ends up being fatal to US then I think the lot of you who would rather sink the ship than see it sail away from your direction will deserve to be as bitter and unhappy as you now seem, and as unemployable as you will be.

And that's the view from under the wing.

Best wishes,
ChockJockey

Just curious....

What method was used to integrate your employee group?

 

[ChockJockey]

Just curious....

What method was used to integrate your employee group?

We crafted an agreement and voted on it.

 

[traderjake]

Understand the bargaining rights of USAPA under the RLA, the voting rights of the pilots and how the contract regulates seniority.......

We have a seniority list and USAPA can try to negotiate a change to it within the constraints of the law.

USAPA can put polygamy in their Constitution and By Laws that don't make it so.

 

[Toothy Grin]

My oh my.

East Pilots now look worse than their reputation. Is this possible?

Guys, drop it already and move on.