US Pilots Labor Thread 4/7 to 4/14- ALL US Pilots Labor Issues Here

[jetjok1]

Well, just this morning in Clt ( Clt-Phx) 04/13, one of our East F/O's was denied a J/S by West metal simply because he was a USAPA member (he was asked, then denied)

Grow up people. He was stuck in Clt for the entire day because everything was full with J/S's taken. :down:

 

[banshee74]

I don't want to see any of our guys harmed either, east or west, but that is exactly what this historic new union is doing. Harming all of us, east and west. I'm sure you are sincere in your comments to the NC, you should be applauded for that. I apologize for the righteous comment, probably a poor choice of words on my part in your particular case.

I think usapa is doing no favors for any of us, it is a sham of a union in its current form. You and I both, along with all the others are being taken for a ride.

Lynyrd,

Thanks...I believe the future is nigh! Regardless of what is said here, the result will, hopefully, soon be upon us.

BTW...great band!

 

[EastUS]

Grow up people.

Indeed. One can always hope....

 

[Piedmont1984]

Well, just this morning in Clt ( Clt-Phx) 04/13, one of our East F/O's was denied a J/S by West metal simply because he was a USAPA member (he was asked, then denied)

Grow up people. He was stuck in Clt for the entire day because everything was full with J/S's taken. :down:

Based on another similar incident in DCA, the CP office in PHX appears to be backing up their own and by doing so encouraging this behavior.

USAPA should be pressuring management for relief - positive space for jump seat denied pilots, adjustment to minimum pay guarantee, etc.

The next time a west pilot asks for my jump seat my first question will be - have you ever denied the same to an east pilot?

 

[EastUS]

The next time a west pilot asks for my jump seat my first question will be - have you ever denied the same to an east pilot?

I feel it's best just to follow the parameters of what's proper within the realm of supposed professionals in the workplace. I'll not deny any west person for that reason...and, for personal reasons; I simply refuse to sink to a level that low....period.

 

[cleardirect]

Based on another similar incident in DCA, the CP office in PHX appears to be backing up their own and by doing so encouraging this behavior.

USAPA should be pressuring management for relief - positive space for jump seat denied pilots, adjustment to minimum pay guarantee, etc.

The next time a west pilot asks for my jump seat my first question will be - have you ever denied the same to an east pilot?

Watch the CLT crew news from a couple of months ago. Doug Parker and Lyle Hogg explain the JS issue.

Captain’s authority.

I am not making any judgments on the decisions made.

However I hope that everyone remembers the righteous indignation that is being thrown around here. If/when judge Wake rules in favor of the west. Will we all of a sudden see a change in attitude regarding who is denying JS?

Will it then be a safety issue for the east? Be careful of situational ethics.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Watch the CLT crew news from a couple of months ago. Doug Parker and Lyle Hogg explain the JS issue.

Captain’s authority.

I am not making any judgments on the decisions made.

However I hope that everyone remembers the righteous indignation that is being thrown around here. If/when judge Wake rules in favor of the west. Will we all of a sudden see a change in attitude regarding who is denying JS?

Will it then be a safety issue for the east? Be careful of situational ethics.

I would say the west is already engaging in situational ethics with regard to the JS - and do you really think either Parker or Hogg place a high premium on captain's authority?

 

[EastUS]

Watch the CLT crew news from a couple of months ago. Doug Parker and Lyle Hogg explain the JS issue.

Captain’s authority.

Will we all of a sudden see a change in attitude regarding who is denying JS?

Having the "authority" to be a perpetual adolescent dosen't justify acting the part. When anyone's a Captain...it behooves them to behave like one. Speaking of perpetual adolescents; Is it your contention that west behavior there's now "justified" by some BS fantasies of yours about presumed future (rather than actual) east behaviors? = "It's ok for we out west to be complete jerks..'cause you might someday"? Your entire post is about as pathetic as it gets.

 

[cleardirect]

Having the "authority" to be a perpetual adolescent dosen't justify acting the part. When anyone's a Captain...it behooves them to behave like one. Speaking of perpetual adolescents; Is it your contention that west behavior there's now "justified" by some BS fantasies of yours about presumed future (rather than actual) east behaviors? = "It's ok for us out west to be complete jerks..'cause you might someday"? Your entire post is about as pathetic as it gets.

Thank you for the insult. Expected as usual.

As I said I made no judgement. It was Hogg that said the east started the JS thing. So it was actual previous actions.

You enjoy your day though.

 

[N924PS]

Well, just this morning in Clt ( Clt-Phx) 04/13, one of our East F/O's was denied a J/S by West metal simply because he was a USAPA member (he was asked, then denied)

Grow up people. He was stuck in Clt for the entire day because everything was full with J/S's taken. :down:

The jumpseat issue is unfortunate collateral damage caused by what has transpired on this property since the merger and especially the emergence of USAPA as the representative union.

Having said that, most pilots, East and West have taken the high ground and extended the jumpseat privilege and kept the politics out of the cockpit. Regrettably, there are still a few on both sides that can not muster the maturity to see that eventually, we must all be on the same page to obtain a new contract.

Because the company, at the senior management level , is happy to see pilots fighting pilots, we are going to be stuck with the jumpseat denials for the forseeable future.

It is very sad that certain pilots feel so vindictive they can not simply act like a professional and do their fellow pilots a favor by getting them to or especially home from work.

 

[EastUS]

As I said I made no judgement.
You enjoy your day though.

1) BS. Any attempt to "justify" such behavior IS a judgement in itself.
2) You too.

 

[EastUS]

It is very sad that certain pilots feel so vindictive they can not simply act like a professional and do their fellow pilots a favor by getting them to or especially home from work.

Indeed.

 

[nic4us]

Well, just this morning in Clt ( Clt-Phx) 04/13, one of our East F/O's was denied a J/S by West metal simply because he was a USAPA member (he was asked, then denied)

Grow up people. He was stuck in Clt for the entire day because everything was full with J/S's taken. :down:

This will not solve this issue, but the West can ride in the F/A jumpseat. We are now flying the 321 CLT-PHX with seven F/A jumpseats and a crew of four. So three open seats in back. Does anyone know what it would take to allow us to open the F/A jumpseats company wide so any pilot could ride on any jumpseat.

 

[sharonstoneseat]

Jumpseat denial still happening is it? Let me give you the flight attendant's point of view.

Witnessing this happen even once was too much. It is actually nauseating ( and I do mean physically). It doesn't impress us with it's authority and so-called safety principles. It accomplishes the opposite. We lose confidence in the front end crew that they are either psychologically delicate or tree house territorial and realize we are not in the presence of the most disciplined mind. What do these Sensitive New Age Persons do when they have to spend an entire trip with a bad copilot? Sing 99 Bottles of Beer in their head for 4 days?

I am mystified so someone please explain it to me. How does it feel to deliberately leave someone at the gate who is trying to get home to rest and family or to work? Is there some pumped up Master of My Domain feeling every time you look at the empty jumpseat? Some kind of weird wood associated with it and that is why you do it? Do you like.... Hi-Five each other when you see that uniform making the " Sorry Honey, didn't get on the flight" cell phone call through the treminal windows on push back? Because that is what we imagine you do. It is either that type of immaturity or we have to figure you are just plain mean.

There are no politics about this in the cabin. We take care of airline people. No matter what their affiliations and beliefs are, we take them to work and we take them home. It is one of the last empathic and gratifying deeds that I can do for my coworkers in this tattered industry and I regret that this is all there is.

We are respectful of the Captain's authority, but we also are not eunuchs. We have been and will continue to be resourceful when it comes to helping any commuters of any stripe when the Captain won't.

 

[nostradamus]

america west pilots update, April 13

Dear AWA and Sapient Old-US Air Pilots,

In spite of repeated attempts to delay the trial, Seham and gang are a mere 15 days away from facing the group of pilots from the West that they so confidently believed they could just throw under the bus without scrutiny from a federal judge. Well, two weeks from tomorrow the gavel will fall in courtroom 504 at the Sandra Day O’Connor Federal Courthouse, and the trial will be underway. The ONLY issue to be tried will be USAPA’s breach of its duty of fair representation. We hope this will be a lesson for those who embarked on this far-flung campaign to replace a union without understanding the distinction between a “wide range of reasonableness†and “mob rules.†Floating out there in the real universe is the legal concept of discrimination, and that is primarily what this trial is about. The Nicolau Arbitration is not on trial - USAPA’s actions are.

We can report to our readers that the attorneys for the plaintiffs are working long hours, but you can sense the synergy in our team as they appear to be in a comfortable stride sprinting toward the finish line. Just as a critical phase of flight is a busy time in the flight deck, the days leading up to a trial are crucial for attorneys who are putting the final touches on a well-developed trial strategy. Our firm has been focusing, refining, and reinforcing their strategy; a strategy which began many months ago and has thus far proven effective. Also, they have remained focused despite the many nuisance filings by our adversary.

As for the other side, well that is a good question, as we are curious as to what is going on over there. As of late, the USAPA spin machine has been mostly silent, which is odd given their past propensity to spin the most outlandish interpretation of just about anything. All Seham seems to have been doing up to this point has been clogging the federal courts with frivolous filings and useless appeals. Perhaps if the verdict hinged on the party that could kill the most trees or waste the most amount of time, then USAPA would have a slam dunk on their hands. What seems elusive to those of us in the real world is evidence of a coherent trial strategy, because they are going to need something better than star power to win. They’re also going to require something more than their imagined conspiracies to even begin to justify their actions against the West. Nevertheless, in two short weeks we will see what all of that USAPA dues money has purchased in the form of a legal defense.

At the risk of being redundant, we again pose the question to the USAPA Brain Trust: “Why the reluctance to litigate?†After all, these USAPA founders and their so-called “legal counsel†are on tape at numerous events guaranteeing that their legal invention was as close to being a slam dunk as is humanly possible. Considering the smug manner in which the USAPA founders and their legal team assured the East pilots that there would be little chance of the West ever having a day in court, and even if the West did then there would be virtually no chance of success, it seems even more curious that there has been such a visible, even panicky effort made to avoid trial. Please do not take this as a prediction of victory for the West, but we do wish to illuminate the numerous falsehoods propagated to all US Airways pilots by our union. Everything they have said has been wrong. Everything. And we don’t just limit this to the trial; everything and anything of material importance to East and West pilots that stated an opinion, or was promised has either been wrong or may be impossible to fulfill. Where is the contract? Where is the DOH list? Where is the pay raise? Where is that retro pay? These are questions that will be forever asked as long as the current leadership of USAPA remains at the helm.

On Friday, Ninth Circuit justices Leavy and Graber tersely denied USAPA's Motion for Emergency Stay, and rightfully so. If you have not read the documents leading to this decision, we encourage you to do so. Please click here for USAPA's Memo In Support of Stay Pending Appeal. Click here for the Leonidas reply to that motion, and here for the order denying USAPA's motion.

The next desperate move by USAPA was to then appeal to The Honorable Judge Wake's peers with the above referenced “Emergency Motion for Stay†[link]. The Leonidas response to that motion can be found here, and finally the court's denial of that motion can be found here.

You will find that all of USAPA's motions are really reaching, and again reveal the dishonest spin coming from our union's leadership. You will see how USAPA screams that the court's misapplication (in its view) of law sound a “death knell†to the ongoing negotiations with the company. We ask you then, since your case is so solid, and [this is really getting comical now] even a guilty verdict would supposedly have no effect on USAPA's plans anyway, then why not just get it over with, vindicate your position, get back to the table, and get all your East followers the fat raise you promised that you would have right away (even if it was only parity with the West)? The answer is simple. This has nothing to do with any sort of “death knell†caused by this litigation, and everything to do with the current USAPA leadership's full-throttle attempt to deflect any responsibility for this self-induced calamity.

What is clear from all of the above, is that Lee Seham and USAPA's misunderstanding of DFR litigation defies explanation- especially this far along in the process. USAPA is yet unable to grasp the difference between a DFR and a Grievance, and continues to attempt to explain to the court that the “System Board has exclusive jurisdiction†over our dispute. We will try to explain it in the most simple terms as possible, because it is clear that USAPA fails to understand: A GRIEVANCE IS A DISPUTE BETWEEN THE UNION AND THE COMPANY. A DFR IS A DISPUTE BETWEEN A UNION MEMBER (OR MEMBERS) AND THE UNION. We cannot make it any more simple. A union does not get to judge for itself whether or not it treats its members fairly- the federal courts judge this in compelling situations such as ours. Somebody please see if they can explain this to SSM&P, because their fundamental misunderstanding of this simple concept is becoming embarrassing even for the plaintiff's, and reflects poorly on your profession (and that of you clients). It is also clear that it is not helping your situation before the court (which is fine with us), but please, just give it a break. The federal court DOES have jurisdiction over this matter, and is not powerless to effect a change to protect the plaintiff's should we prevail.

What is perhaps most alarming is how many USAPA members recently affirmed the direction set by the most extreme contingent of national officer candidates. The campaign alternatives of “protecting our date-of-hire†and the promises of an industry leading contract seem as undeliverable by this team as they have ever been, as there has been an unmistakable failure to deliver anything of value to our pilot group thus far. The good news is that you will get to vote again, as this incompetent bunch botched our first round of national elections by denying a West Pilot his opportunity to run for office. We wonder what the cost will be to the “Good Union Pilotsâ€. You know what they say “past performance is no guarantee of future returns,†however it is usually a strong indicator.

In closing, the West is prepared for whatever outcome may occur, but it is clear that the East, once again, is not. The East must seriously contemplate the possibility that they may well be required to abide by the Nicolau, and that failure to do so may forever result in contempt of court. Try as you might, the results of this litigation cannot be ignored, no matter how many times Randy Mowrey or Elwood Menear may tell you this. To our fellow West pilots (and East supporters) the time is running out for you to register your support for our mission before the trial commences on April 28th. Please visit this link to contribute to the AWA pilots legal campaign through Leonidas LLC.