US Pilots Labor Thread 4/7 to 4/14- ALL US Pilots Labor Issues Here

[tazz]

why all the squirming whenever asked about the reason(s) for being at AWA as opposed to a major?

Methinks the Lady(ies) doth protesteth too much.

Eastus, you really are a piece of work. First of all I gave a direct answer with some extremely valid reasons for being at AWA. Just how do you define squirming? Secondly, like it or not, AWA was a major airline, growing and profitable while your "legacy" carrier was in its death throes.

 

[Furlough Fodder]

No insult meant but; why should I be interested in the opinion of one stranger about the credibility of yet another?..and; why all the squirming whenever asked about the reason(s) for being at AWA as opposed to a major?

Methinks the Lady(ies) doth protesteth too much.

Likewise as I have no interest in a stranger's opinion of someone whom I have personally shared the flight deck with. Just trying to balance the equation for those that do not know any of us.

As for squirming.... I believe that is a "reach" as tazz was pretty clear and unambiguous for the career decisions he has made.

 

[tazz]

I see...So..How'd it actually go with all of the other majors when you applied? You know = the ones that had bases in warmer climates and all?

The only other place I applied was Delta and I was turned down. Happy?

 

[BoeingBoy]

I guess EastUS considers the CEL and new hire pilots on the East side inferior as well. After all, they took a job at US at a time that EastUS admits that US would be beneath his talents.

Jim

 

[nic4us]

So then...umm...Just what's your problem out there with running any part of all that evident "fairness" by any jury then?

Frankly, I have no problem with it. But it is merely USAPA's opinion. I say let them tell the jury their underlying reason for their DFR.

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we feel that the Nic award is so unfair we had no option but to deny the West their DFR and institute a seniority list of our own making." or how about, "our opinion is tha Nic is so unfair contractual obligations do not apply to us"

What is the arguement. USAPA is guilty but has an excuse?

 

[Megasnoop]

Why should Tiger want the Wye River deal with only 400 pilots below him? He has over 1,500 furloughees below him right now, it is just a recalitrant herd called USAPA can't figure out what "Final and binding" means. Judge Wake is about to explain it, though...

So, Tiger spends a couple of months on "leave" and gets his back pay a few months later (along with all of the other West pilots furloughed out of seniority), courtesy of a court- ordered USAPA assessment.

Obviously your absence hasnt tempered your keyboard. Without a single contract, hes on furlough. Wye River would have kept him working. Hard to argue that. If USAPA wins the grievance he will be back, with back pay. If USAPA loses, hes still on a furlough he wouldnt be on with Wye River. If hes got another job to wait this out, then thats a good thing. If not, I do feel his pain. Been there.

Any "court-ordered" assessment will merely BK USAPA. It wont put a cent in his pocket.

My advice to the east pilots: spend frugally over there in Europe because money is going to get tighter, especially for east f/o's.

I can see you havent lost your edge. Thats the kind of remark that will poison this place for the next 20 years. It would take years to knock us out of the wide-bodies. If it got that bad, youd better watch your pennies too, because well all be out of work. BTW, did you pay your dues/DFR fee?

Regarding your losing argument with Jim and legal fees, all you have to say is "I was wrong". You don't need verbose posts filled with nothing of substance to say it, you can condense it all into those three words.

Facts, $50K on the RICO last FY. Less than $50K this FY (from my Rep). Not hundred$ of thousand$ as floated by west. Total legal fees from USAPA inception through first 3 months of operation, including $50K for RICO, only $187K. Thats LM-2. Union "discount."

Regarding hp-fa, he obviously is an intelligent person which contributes greatly to civil discourse (my opinion). Flaming him only exposes one's own insecurities.

Debate=flame? Your quite sensitive. Im sure hp can fight his own fights. I dont do the "yes you did...no I didnt" debate. Its silly

Oh, enjoy that widebody f/o seat, Tiger may want it after the court rules in May...

Der Prechilill

Again, poisoning any chance of meaningful debate either now or after a final list comes out. I havent predicted anything other than this case will be decided in the courts, not on this chat board. All the gottchas wont change that. Once its over, its over. Ill live with the results, whatever they are. Not sure some westies can handle a loss. Snoopo

 

[hp_fa]

I'm busy packing for my cruise but I wanted to jump in and say that I don't think anyone was inferring that Megasnoop was or had been flaming me. I think that comment was in conjunction with someone else.

To be honest and fair, Mega, EastUS and a few others, despite being obviously pro-USAPA, have had no problems exchanging views with me in civil and respectful exchanges. As most of you have seen I try to stay out of discussions that are not related to actual legal discussions or having to do with legal matters. In other words I try to stay out of what I consider to be purely emotional discussions. They don't really interest me. The legal stuff still does.

Anyway, I am digressing. Senor Snoop and I don't have any outstanding issues that I am aware of so the post probably wasn't directed at him.

 

[LCC_#1]

QUOTE (Glucose Intolerant @ Apr 7 2009, 11:46 PM) *
This was bar none the best US airline to go to work for back in the 80's.



"Dude"..what's truly sad is how much has been lost in the quality of life within the airline experience. Being an airline pilot used to really mean something, both in terms of respect and compensation, and was truly a great lifestyle. It was then, (clearly, as opposed to now), an incredibly competitive position to even ever achieve, and brought with it proper pride. Sigh...Perhaps it's really, just best for you that you never knew, and will never know, how it was in past times..."Dude" 😉

For f/a's as well!

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Des Snoopo gets alot of information from his reps and other usapa sources. It also sounds like he believes it. Good for you Senor Snoop.

 

[Metroyet]

Facts, $50K on the RICO last FY. Less than $50K this FY (from my Rep). Not hundred$ of thousand$ as floated by west. Total legal fees from USAPA inception through first 3 months of operation, including $50K for RICO, only $187K. Thats LM-2. Union "discount."

You get what you pay for.

That said however, I'm willing to bet the costs are far Far FAR greater than what you've been told.

 

[cleardirect]

Not so there, either. Of course the bill is going to be high. The RICO has pretty much settled out at under $100K on our side, unless the west starts acting up again. The DFR, based on current billing, less than $1.2 Million (TOTAL). But whatever bills arise, the West is going to end up paying 1/3 of them. Thats a good thing.



I call him regularly, see above. Your side started this journey. But thanks for footing 1/3 the cost. Takes the sting out of it. And yes, I have an up-to-date accounting and a good estimate on the final bill. I love it. We pay 2/3. The West pay 1/3. And thats just for the defense. Who knows what their plaintiff attorneys bill will be.

Das Snoopen

Well we are getting closer to that $1.9 mil that I said. Don't forget the seven lawyers you have working on the Empire case. Plus all of the other "advice" that Seham spews. Like the very smart advice to deny the west pilot a chance to run in the election. What was the total cost on that sound legal advice?

$100,000 and the BPR wanted to settle for less then $700. Now that is a fine return on an investment of member dues.

Still a bit above the first estimate of <$500,000. The LM-2 is going to be interesting reading. Any guesses, before or after the verdict? I say after.

1/3 paying your bills? How many members are in the west? 130- 140. Not quite the 1/3 you hope for. Add in the Susie arbitration possibility. Some damages maybe. No I think that legal bill will fall completly onto the east. Along with a nice seperate assesment for your pension.

Time to find that check book. The bills are coming due.

Just to keep the record straight. usapa fired the first shot.the RICO suit was filed the end of May. Not the west

 

[n2flyin]

And it looks like at least another few thousand bucks (estimate:$25,000.00) to re-run the usapa presidential election that they botched.........

The Department of Labor is now watching this bunch closely as a result of their ineptitude.

One more feather in the usapa dunce cap.......

 

[EastUS]

As for squirming.... I believe that is a "reach" as tazz was pretty clear and unambiguous for the career decisions he has made.

Indeed.

tazz: "The only other place I applied was Delta and I was turned down. Happy?"

Can we please just drop all the AWA-was-the-greatest-thing-ever-since-sliced-bread total BS now?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

And it looks like at least another few thousand bucks (estimate:$25,000.00) to re-run the usapa presidential election that they botched.........

The Department of Labor is now watching this bunch closely as a result of their ineptitude.

One more feather in the usapa dunce cap.......

Now, now, don't get ahead of yourself. Let's wait until snoop talks to his rep and get's the real story. I'm sure they're only doing it for the right reasons, and it's only a couple hundred bucks. 🙄

 

[Furlough Fodder]

Indeed.

tazz: "The only other place I applied was Delta and I was turned down. Happy?"

Can we please just drop the AWA was the greatest-thing-ever-since-sliced-bread BS now?

Are we going to drop the AWA was a place for pilots who couldn't go anywhere else BS too?