US Pilots' Labor Thread 4/28-5/5--NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[wopr21]

Valley fever.

SEC records show that HP merged with a subsidiary of US. It would like they merged with the NY Times, then told everyone they bought GE.

Perhaps they think if they say it enough, it becomes the truth.

Really, Its unfortunate that the media puts stuff like out without knowing the truth.

Its also unfortunate that some people believe what they read in the papers or electronic media.

Happy someone else saw truth

wopr

 

[KTM300]

If you wanna re-hash who-saved-who consider without the Piedmont merger in 1989 there would have been no international & no Southern Division = no more USAir.

So, it was Piedmont that saved the airline.

Just for the record...Here's a little aviation fun fact!

Piedmont, affectionately known in N.C. as the 'Piedmont puddle jumper', became an international carrier when it merged with Empire, which owned the international landing rights. Before the merger with Empire, Piedmont was merely a domestic carrier flying jets and turboprops until 1984, merging with Empire in 1985

 

[nic4us]

and,

You used the term, "probably", a word that means you have no proof, just a feeling. That does not seem like facts to me.


Regardless of the outcome, the west pilots will get their "nic" in seven years. Why the hurry?

On a darker note, I fly with enough east FOs to know that, should the "nic" be imposed, US will definitely reside at the bottom in all stats, for years. The FOs will not leave, impacting the revenue base, jacking up costs. They have nothing to lose, knowing the value of "keeping their hands on the throttles". Yeah, mean spirited, but I don't blame them.

Consider this, deferring your extra expectations for seven years and reaping bonuses you never had before the "merger", or, getting it now and guaranteed going belly up shortly thereafter. Your choice.

you are correct, probably is not in reality a fact. So the age of the furloughs who are junior to me, wishing to leepfrog mine and 80% of all west pilots position and replacing it with their own is of course irrelevant.

Your 7 year falicy is just that.

To your darker note, consider this,.........I dare you !!!!!! double dare you!!!!!! triple dog double dare you!!!!!!! our junior guys will appreciate the higher attrition rate, or if it causes the end for us all, so be it.

Oh, one more thing, we had f/o's who expected to upgrade within the year 2006 who may never upgrade under DOH, why are your expectations so important, and theirs not considered?

 

[toganoflex]

Just for the record...Here's a little aviation fun fact!

Piedmont, affectionately known in N.C. as the 'Piedmont puddle jumper', became an international carrier when it merged with Empire, which owned the international landing rights. Before the merger with Empire, Piedmont was merely a domestic carrier flying jets and turboprops until 1984, merging with Empire in 1985

Nine jurors seated by 1430 - only one over the age of 50.

Two east FO's in uniform were in attendance (complete joke).

Seham's opening statement garnered two objections, both of which were sustained by Wake.

Great start for Seham.

AoL's opening statement had no objections.

Two witnesses were called by plaintiff's counsel and court adjourned at 1700.

Start again at 0900.

 

[toganoflex]

I read that article that was posted on the closed thread and I have to say it really irked me.

Do the people in Arizona really believe AWA bought US Airways?

Bradford agrees as well.

Its in his letter.

 

[traderjake]

and,

On a darker note, I fly with enough east FOs to know that, should the "nic" be imposed, US will definitely reside at the bottom in all stats, for years. The FOs will not leave, impacting the revenue base, jacking up costs. They have nothing to lose, knowing the value of "keeping their hands on the throttles". Yeah, mean spirited, but I don't blame them.

Exactly what are they going to do from the right seat?

They're already not making trip sheets.

 

[ableoneable]

Really, Its unfortunate that the media puts stuff like out without knowing the truth.

Its also unfortunate that some people believe what they read in the papers or electronic media.

Happy someone else saw truth

wopr

As with the arbitration, the issue of who acquired whom is settled - at least to those outside.

The only people on the planet who don't realize that USAir was acquired by AWA are those on the east side.

Without AWA there would have been no more money for USAir and it would have faded into the sunset. Absent Parker no-one who put their money into the merger was interested.

Both the neutrals agreed with Nicolau, the Delta/Northwest merger followed the Nicolau pattern and only the east pilots believe that it is fair for them to claw back all their losses at the expense of another group of pilots.

Dave Odell held a right seat slot on the A-320 on the day of the merger. All furloughees should have been placed below him on the list. Their time in service could have been one day or thirty years, it had no bearing on the issue. To do otherwise would be to steal seniority from Odell et all in an attempt to make the east pilots' whole. A windfall for east pilots at the expense of west pilots.

 

[nic4us]

1) Fine, so long as you don't attempt further spin to try and dilute to truth of the observations.
2) You seem rather uncomfortable with that notion = a then child in sixth grade when you started learning flight, taking "seniority" from you....BUT..you seem completely untroubled with the idea of inflicting even more absurd examples of such abuse upon others?..such as having said child given "seniority" over east people that were far past just getting their "learner's permit" and were actually hired on by the airline??? "Interesting", to say the least.

3)"below furloughs"? = Which actual furloughs?>Are there any who've taken recall that would "devastate" your system seniority?

4) "The promised C&R's, which further rob me of my job, could be changed as circumstances vary at the will of the negotiators who feel our seniority is negotiable." Precisely HOW do the proposed C&R's "rob you" of ANYTHING?...other than an ability to jump east and actually rob someone of their/the east system's "job"?

1. Ok
2. I was trying to illustrate that DOH has similar effects in reverse. We can look at individual cases in either instance and find large disparities. I am not uncomfortable with the age of the person taking seniority from me, only that they are taking from me, the 6 year old or never born person in your example has not taken anything from anyone, just kept what was theirs in the first place.
3.Did Coello return? Was he furloughed? Was he an Airbus captain when we merged or furloughed? If I end up junior to Coello and a couple hundred of his friends my system seniority drops over 40%, I would call that devastating!
4.The C&Rs just guarantee more of the same, no mention of sharing growth( actually if I recall correctly it hoards it for the east but I could be wrong on that) but plenty of mention about who gets furloughed. In a large reduction, me and 80% of West while Coello finds himself employed. They "rob" me by trying to legitimize the wholesale theft of my position in this company.

 

[Crzipilot]

In regards to the CNBC article that was written. First I don't believe it was CNBC but a journalist that writes for CNBC and doesn't express the opinion of CNBC.

If you also follow the history of that letter, back to where it first came to light. You might figure that someone in the AOL camp sorta gave her the editorial to publish. Just a hunch but I don't think that lady did much of her own writing on that article, or the one she published a few months ago.

So I guess since someone got into the ear of a aviation bloggist, and gave her information, so she could fill one day of editorial, it becames truth?!?!?

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

In regards to the CNBC article that was written. First I don't believe it was CNBC but a journalist that writes for CNBC and doesn't express the opinion of CNBC.

If you also follow the history of that letter, back to where it first came to light. You might figure that someone in the AOL camp sorta gave her the editorial to publish. Just a hunch but I don't think that lady did much of her own writing on that article, or the one she published a few months ago.

So I guess since someone got into the ear of a aviation bloggist, and gave her information, so she could fill one day of editorial, it becames truth?!?!?

CNBC didn't become the company it is by writing or publishing articles laden with errata.

Yet another attempt at blaming others for your woe?

 

[nic4us]

Really, Its unfortunate that the media puts stuff like out without knowing the truth.

Its also unfortunate that some people believe what they read in the papers or electronic media.

Happy someone else saw truth

wopr

How true. For instance I read in the paper USAPA represents the 5400 pilots of USAirways.

But on the topic of the media, I challenge any east poster to find an article dealing with the merger that does not name America West as the aquiring airline. Better yet, find one article that says USAirways bought America West and I will quite posting for one month if that article was circulated on any newswire.

 

[kamono]

From the SEC10Q
On September 26, 2007, as part of the integration efforts following the merger of US Airways Group and America West Holdings Corporation (“America West Holdingsâ€￾) in September 2005, America West Airlines, Inc. (“AWAâ€￾) surrendered its Federal Aviation Administration (“FAAâ€￾) operating certificate. As a result, all mainline airline operations are now being conducted under US Airways’ FAA operating certificate. In connection with the combination of all mainline airline operations under one FAA operating certificate, US Airways Group contributed one hundred percent of its equity interest in America West Holdings to US Airways. As a result, America West Holdings and its wholly owned subsidiary AWA are now wholly owned subsidiaries of US Airways. In addition, AWA transferred substantially all of its assets and liabilities to US Airways. All off-balance sheet commitments of AWA were also transferred to US Airways. This transaction constituted a transfer of assets between entities under common control and was accounted for at historical cost.

Please if you are going to quote the SEC please read the whole report first
The merger has been accounted for as a reverse acquisition using the purchase method of accounting. Although the merger was structured such that America West Holdings became a wholly owned subsidiary of US Airways Group, America West Holdings will be treated as the acquiring company for accounting purposes due to the following factors: (1) America West Holdings' stockholders received the largest share of the Company's common stock in the merger in comparison to unsecured creditors of US Airways Group; (2) America West Holdings received a larger number of designees to the board of directors; and (3) America West Holdings' Chairman and Chief Executive Officer prior to the merger became the Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of the combined company. As a result of the reverse acquisition, the statement of operations presented includes the results of America West Holdings for the three months and nine months ended September 30, 2005 and consolidated results of US Airways Group for the four days ended September 30, 2005.

here is the link to the Form 10-Q on 9 Nov 2005

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/051109/lcc10-q.html

and really get over it,
AWA didn't have the money they went and got financing JUST LIKE YOU DO WHEN YOU WANT TO BUY A CAR OR A HOUSE.

 

[700UW]

No one bought anyone, that is why the change of control grievances were lost.

HP and US were merged using outside money, each airline did not buy each other.

Airbus, Air Canada and several other companies all ponied up cash for stakes in the new company.

The deal was put together by Seabury and associates, who was working for US Airways, not America West, so US brought the money to the merger, not HP.

Read this.

 

[ableoneable]

No one bought anyone, that is why the change of control grievances were lost.

HP and US were merged using outside money, each airline did not buy each other.

Airbus, Air Canada and several other companies all ponied up cash for stakes in the new company.

The deal was put together by Seabury and associates, who was working for US Airways, not America West, so US brought the money to the merger, not HP.

Read this.

And Round and Round We Go,

USAir to Seabury: "Find someone who is willing to take this sinking ship off of our hands."

 

[toganoflex]

On a darker note, I fly with enough east FOs to know that, should the "nic" be imposed, US will definitely reside at the bottom in all stats, for years. The FOs will not leave, impacting the revenue base, jacking up costs. They have nothing to lose, knowing the value of "keeping their hands on the throttles". Yeah, mean spirited, but I don't blame them.

YAWN!!!