US Pilots Labor Thread 3/25-4/1

[EastUS]

Funny, wasn't it you that posted:

"Its' apparently your position, and that of the west, that the east system should be open range, free game to be had for any/all people out west, with half or less the years worked as their east counterparts..."

I presumed from those words that you believe the above is what would occur under the Nic award and I was just giving you the facts (as distasteful as you find such silly things as facts when opinions are so easy to change when the situation warrants). Were your words not a prognosis of what would happen under the Nic award in your opinion? Or were you just pulling retorts out of thin air as part of of the usual "anything said by those not sharing EastUS' opinion is to be ridiculed, along with the person saying it."

Jim

Whew!...I'm naturally crushed that you can feel so easilly "ridiculed". I'd have assumed a far tougher bark from life's various passages than that, but no matter. Yes..I believe that my observations are essentially accurate, and we'll differ as to the validity of what consitutes your supposed "facts" to the contrary. If it's not within the west's desires to establish an "open range" to freely feed upon out east..well..umm..exactly WTF is this whole Nic obsession out there even about?

 

[Metroyet]

WTF is this whole Nic obsession out there even about?

Integrity. It matters.

 

[EastUS]

Integrity. It matters.

Ah! thank you. I see now. Whew!..Fortunately..I'll never be burdened with the unimaginably vast ocean of crushing "integrity" it would require for me to ever think that a working year of my life was worth twice, or many times that of any other person in the same class/trade/craft..and I naturally respect all out west for playing the part of mighty Atlas, and enduring such a weighty world-full of said "integrity"

 

[Metroyet]

Ah! thank you. I see now. Whew!..Fortunately..I'll never be burdened with the unimaginably vast ocean of crushing "integrity" it would require for me to ever think that a working year of my life was worth twice, or many times that of any other person in the same class/trade/craft.

Hook, Line and Sinker...

 

[EastUS]

Hook, Line and Sinker...

Umm..dont' you mean "hook, line and "INTEGRITY MATTERS" Stickers? or..have those since become "Sinkers"?

Nothing further? C'mon son...pick up the pace a bit if you expect any fun from this, and life's to be enjoyed. Meanwhile; have a good evening and fine day to come.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Fortunately..I'll never be burdened with the unimaginably vast ocean of crushing "integrity" it would require for me to ever think that a working year of my life was worth twice, or many times that of any other person in the same class/trade/craft..

I take it you've demanded that the company put you below any on the East list who have more time in the same class/trade/craft than you. I'm thinking possibly some of the ex-Empire/Braniff/TWA/Eastern folks that are still around would welcome moving up since you believe their years in the same class/trade/craft should make them senior to yourself. There's possibly even some in the new hire classes following yours (if not the same class as you) that also had more time in class/trade/craft yet ended up junior to you. Maybe we could start a list of those East pilots whose rightful position, by your standard, you're usurping. Wouldn't want that moral compass to be out of whack now, would we...

Jim

ps - if you want to dispute my facts about what would happen under the Nic, bring proof. Otherwise you're just another "I'm right and everyone who disagrees is wrong" ego looking for a hat big enough.

 

[john john]

and well estblished industry standards, not some whim.

I can say with out a doubt that nic award would not fly with any union on the properties with any class and craft with any airline in the United States of America except the pilot groups. The nic award is questionable with in the pilot groups of all airlines. ALPA and the government has already put into place processes to integrated seniority since the questionable nic award

 

[BoeingBoy]

ALPA and the government has already put into place processes to integrated seniority since the questionable nic award

Correction - the new law covering seniority integrations in airline mergers was a response to the AA-TW merger, not the Nic. That it didn't get passed till after Nic came out says something about the speed with which Congress usually acts, not the Nic award.

Since the US/HP merger had the same CBA on both sides, the new law wouldn't have affected Nic if it had been in place prior to the award. Of course, the irony of the new law is that when it applies it calls for binding arbitration if necessary - exactly what happened in the US/HP pilot integration and the results of which the East is trying to avoid.

I'd be interested in seeing a link to changes ALPA has made to their policy since the Nic award came out, since I've heard of no changes that have been passed by the ALPA board since Nic.

Jim

 

[john john]

That it didn't get passed till after Nic came out

Jim

Good thing for the WEST

 

[john john]

Correction - the new law covering seniority integrations in airline mergers was a response to the AA-TW merger, not the Nic. That it didn't get passed till after Nic came out says something about the speed with which Congress usually acts, not the Nic award.

Since the US/HP merger had the same CBA on both sides, the new law wouldn't have affected Nic if it had been in place prior to the award. Of course, the irony of the new law is that when it applies it calls for binding arbitration if necessary - exactly what happened in the US/HP pilot integration and the results of which the East is trying to avoid.

I'd be interested in seeing a link to changes ALPA has made to their policy since the Nic award came out, since I've heard of no changes that have been passed by the ALPA board since Nic.

Jim

QUOTE (john john @ Mar 30 2009, 07:59 AM)
ALPA and the government has already put into place processes to integrated seniority since the questionable nic award


In view of the fact.

 

[john john]

We oppose government interference in bargaining, such as compulsory arbitration or imposing an obligation to bargain.

AFA/CWA has 5 letters
CHAOSâ„¢?
Without a process it could be chaos

 

[EastUS]

I take it you've demanded that the company put you below any on the East list who have more time in the same class/trade/craft than you. I'm thinking possibly some of the ex-Empire/Braniff/TWA/Eastern folks that are still around would welcome moving up since you believe their years in the same class/trade/craft should make them senior to yourself.

I'd be quite fine with that personally, and consider that very proper,,(although, since you mention it; I've never beefed about not having my Eastern DOH given me) . Based upon your earlier championing of slotted, "relative" seniority during the Piedmont merger..it's quite clear that you wouldn't. I'd further suggest that, based upon the bulk of your postings, that you can't much imagine anyone not sharing what I perceive to be an obvious and unwholesome level of personal selfishness in that regard. Our differences there are very apparent and will remain so. Enough said.

 

[ussnark]

Integrity. It matters.

Indeed, it does. What say you to flawed information, deliberately introduced to an arbitrator? Would your "integrity" accept that?

 

[EastUS]

You can lay this whole mess right at the feet of our Federal Government. Here is the Libertarian Party viewpoint.

We oppose government interference in bargaining, such as compulsory arbitration or imposing an obligation to bargain.

As a registered Libertarian myself, (given that I can't stand either of the two established poltical monstrosities/machines) I couldn't agree more..but, that just leaves us dangerously close to approaching the realm of the merely idealistic.

 

[ussnark]

Correction - the new law covering seniority integrations in airline mergers was a response to the AA-TW merger, not the Nic. That it didn't get passed till after Nic came out says something about the speed with which Congress usually acts, not the Nic award.

On it's face, what the poster said was exactly correct. You were the one who added qualifiers.