US Pilots Labor Thread 3/11-3/18 OBSERVE THE RULES

[BoeingBoy]

The last post by Toganoflex I think accurately summarizes the case: in that the West would rather gamble and win, than participate in an industry-accepted policy that used to be in place.

I think you'll find that both sides agreed to "gamble".

Industry-accepted? Of the 31 years since the CAB stopped controlling the industry and mergers within it, the last 20 haven't had a DOH merger of the pilots between major players. It seems the definition of industry-standard has changed for pilots...

Jim

 

[N1bugmeupflaps1]

I think you'll find that both sides agreed to "gamble".

Industry-accepted? Of the 31 years since the CAB stopped controlling the industry and mergers within it, the last 20 haven't had a DOH merger of the pilots between major players. It seems the definition of industry-standard has changed for pilots...

Jim

I note the cynicism in your comment, sir. Regardless, that ALPA got strayed away by money is not the question at hand, I think we would all agree money has gotten in the way of our union. (ALPA) I will tell you and all your young friends from America West this: I have spent almost 20 years at my company, and I enjoy a senior schedule as a Captain on the '76. We will not allow for our positions to be "bargained away" at someone else's discretion. I've read the rumors about mergers...and you can forget getting my seat if we do. We are working on ALPA now to reconcile a workable merger POLICY going forward. What happened between you and USAir will NOT happen with us.. I don't blame then for taking this to court.

No junior punk will grab my seat after all my years. Write that down.

 

[Phoenix]

I note the cynicism in your comment, sir. Regardless, that ALPA got strayed away by money is not the question at hand, I think we would all agree money has gotten in the way of our union. (ALPA) I will tell you and all your young friends from America West this: I have spent almost 20 years at my company, and I enjoy a senior schedule as a Captain on the '76. We will not allow for our positions to be "bargained away" at someone else's discretion. I've read the rumors about mergers...and you can forget getting my seat if we do. We are working on ALPA now to reconcile a workable merger POLICY going forward. What happened between you and USAir will NOT happen with us.. I don't blame then for taking this to court.

No junior punk will grab my seat after all my years. Write that down.

20 year senior '76 captain? And you call "junior" a punk. Imagine what the 25 or 30 year captains call them. Or the 25 year FOs!

 

[nic4us]

I note the cynicism in your comment, sir. Regardless, that ALPA got strayed away by money is not the question at hand, I think we would all agree money has gotten in the way of our union. (ALPA) I will tell you and all your young friends from America West this: I have spent almost 20 years at my company, and I enjoy a senior schedule as a Captain on the '76. We will not allow for our positions to be "bargained away" at someone else's discretion. I've read the rumors about mergers...and you can forget getting my seat if we do. We are working on ALPA now to reconcile a workable merger POLICY going forward. What happened between you and USAir will NOT happen with us.. I don't blame then for taking this to court.

No junior punk will grab my seat after all my years. Write that down.

While you work on ALPA, write this down, make certain not to include any mention of date of hire in any future seniority integration policy, or else your senior 20 year position will go away to a furlough who was hired before you.

That is what USAPA ( the east) would like to do to the West.

 

[Phoenix]

Part of the america west pilots update for March 9, 09, follows my opinion.

The west pilots were able to gain class action status regarding their most recent lawsuit. One week they were begging for the money, the next week they had it. Their claim of a "co founder" that "gambled" $30,000 does not pass the smell test. The money came from an organization that would be embarrassed by the knowledge of its participation.

Follow the money...

For ALPA, 30K would be easier than tossing crumbs to the dogs. But of course they don't even answer the phone any more, now that they have caller ID.

 

[pilotn79]

A320 Driver,
What will the jury think when they hear Sully and Skiles story from the witness stand? It will be interesting having a jury. After all, the majority of juries are composed of retirees and middle-aged worker bees. I am sure many of them put time in at some company somewhere and probably wouldn't like to be displaced by junior colleagues.

Later,
Eye

The jury would probably be more impressed by the number of posts I've had on this forum or by my silver hair. I don't think that they would be impressed by the F/O, also known as the flap operator.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I think you'll find that both sides agreed to "gamble".

Industry-accepted? Of the 31 years since the CAB stopped controlling the industry and mergers within it, the last 20 haven't had a DOH merger of the pilots between major players. It seems the definition of industry-standard has changed for pilots...

Jim

There have been two major airline mergers in the past 20 years, or since DOH was removed circa 1991. One was a complete fiasco and the second took heed of the first.

I would say the current industry standard is sub-standard.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I have spent almost 20 years at my company, and I enjoy a senior schedule as a Captain on the '76.

Then you would go below most of the US (East) pilots with the DOH integration method that you champion - mixed in with junior F/O's. What's that saying...be careful what you wish for or you might get it.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

I would say the current industry standard is sub-standard.

My perception is that a lot of the industry pilots are like our young friend N1bugmeupf1 - all in favor of DOH when it's put in terms of a pilot with only X years going in front of a pilot with Y years. But when they see what their X years has gotten them in terms of seniority versus an East pilot with the same number or more years, the light comes on and DOH doesn't sound as inviting.

Most of the industry's pilots are more like N1bugmeupf1 - 20 years will get you a relatively senior captain's job, if not widebody captain. Tell them that it's only fair that a 21 year reserse F/O deserves to go in front of them and you'll get anything but agreement.

Jim

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

It's not pathetic. It's strategy. All is fair in love and war - no?

Your remark is naive.

Tis not war, nor love. Tis attempted airway robbery and you're not getting away with it.

Your opinion sux. Yes?

 

[Barberpole]

I note the cynicism in your comment, sir. Regardless, that ALPA got strayed away by money is not the question at hand, I think we would all agree money has gotten in the way of our union. (ALPA) I will tell you and all your young friends from America West this: I have spent almost 20 years at my company, and I enjoy a senior schedule as a Captain on the '76. We will not allow for our positions to be "bargained away" at someone else's discretion. I've read the rumors about mergers...and you can forget getting my seat if we do. We are working on ALPA now to reconcile a workable merger POLICY going forward. What happened between you and USAir will NOT happen with us.. I don't blame then for taking this to court.

No junior punk will grab my seat after all my years. Write that down.

N1

That is hilarious. So you are a big advocate of strict DOH? Do you realize that if your carrier had merged with US Airways under DOH you would have been junior to the BOTTOM FO's at US Aiways? YOU would be the 'junior punk.' It's interesting to watch guys like you get all worked up over an issue you don't understand. READ the Nic award before you discard it as being unfair.

 

[luvn737s]

To those who claim the west's refusal to participate: That's irrelevant.

The union has to represent ALL pilots, both members as well as non-members. They have a Duty to Represent. There is no Duty to Participate.

USAPA could have behaved in a less obvious way and perhaps clouded the issue of their representing the west pilots, but the evidence is quite clear that they never took the west pilots interests into account. The latest gutting of the west contract's Age 58 provision is a clear example.

And the UAL pilot should bring himself up to speed on our Transition Agreement which specifies that there is no bump and flush - no "punk" is going to kick you out of your seat.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I seriously doubt N1 is a United Pilot.

 

[A320 Driver]

To those who claim the west's refusal to participate: That's irrelevant.

The union has to represent ALL pilots, both members as well as non-members. They have a Duty to Represent. There is no Duty to Participate.

USAPA could have behaved in a less obvious way and perhaps clouded the issue of their representing the west pilots, but the evidence is quite clear that they never took the west pilots interests into account. The latest gutting of the west contract's Age 58 provision is a clear example.

And the UAL pilot should bring himself up to speed on our Transition Agreement which specifies that there is no bump and flush - no "punk" is going to kick you out of your seat.

Irrelevant???

The union is made up of representatives Sir. The BPR is nothing more than a group of reps. West was asked REPEATEDLY to provide reps from PHX and LAS. None were elected, none were sent. How can you be represented if you WON'T participate?

I get the drift of your argument but these are the kinds of questions that might be asked during testimony. Then it's up to the jury to decide what's relevant...not us.

A320 Driver B)

 

[maddawg]

Switch gears to another subject for a moment. I heard a rumor that all the RDF just got a bonus equivalent to half their salary and the asst. CP's got 25% of their salary as a bonus. That would equate to roughly $90K for the RDF, almost double what an E190 f/o makes in a year.