US Pilots Labor Thread 3/11-3/18 OBSERVE THE RULES

[PA18]

hp fa

Just curious, but what do you think about the jury being from AZ and the possiblity that they may be biased in favor of the plaintiffs.

IOW, the plaintiffs are employees of the former hometown airline. They have family ties, community ties, etc.

Is it presumptuous or paranoid on my part to assume that a tainted jury pool may exist - and thereby serve as grounds for an appeal?

When the former Piedmont pilots, who now make up the majority of USAPA, lost their arbitration in the USAir merger -- and were forced to integrate DOH, even though they had fought vehemently against that concept -- one good ol' boy was overheard complaining that the reason his group had lost the arbitration was because the arbitrator, Mr. Kagel, and the then-CEO of USAir, Mr. Colodny, both happened to be of the Jewish persuasion.

 

[Freighterguynow]

When the former Piedmont pilots, who now make up the majority of USAPA, lost their arbitration in the USAir merger -- and were forced to integrate DOH, even though they had fought vehemently against that concept -- one good ol' boy was overheard complaining that the reason his group had lost the arbitration was because the arbitrator, Mr. Kagel, and the then-CEO of USAir, Mr. Colodny, both happened to be of the Jewish persuasion.

That's uncalled for - btw I've never heard this before from anyone involved.

 

[Piedmont1984]

PA 18

Yes, we Piedmont types wanted relative position. But when DOH was the decision, most of us reflected and accepted. DOH was reasonable and fair, so we made peace with that concept. There was no march on Herndon, no decertification of ALPA, no lawsuits.

My question regarding the jury goes to the heart of legal strategy. We will be going to court now. So the question is how best to win our case. Jury trials can be a risky proposition, much more influenced by emotion. Just remember the O.J. trial. This fact can work for or against us in Phoenix.

Nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

 

[Pilot692]

That's uncalled for - btw I've never heard this before from anyone involved.
[/quote]


Why is it uncalled for? Merely reporting history.....or is that a crime now....?

 

[Freighterguynow]

realize that this is a federal court issuing an order. And while the Judge may not "make" you ratify some onerous clause with in some future contact he can make it so financially distasteful that you'd much rather follow his order. I'm quite sure we'll see some element of "force" in his ruling. Going against an order is contempt of court. Fines and possible jail time. Remember APA?

You may have a point there Tiger but you are then arguing both for and against ALPA merger policy.

For - because it supports the Nic and

Against - because you attempting to impose a time requirement when there is none.

So, if the West votes "No" they would pay fines and the West member of the NAC goes to jail?

Interesting ....

 

[PA18]

That's uncalled for - btw I've never heard this before from anyone involved.

I agree. It was uncalled for.

That's exactly how I felt when I heard the man say it, right there in the CLT crew room.

In fact, I still remember him pronouncing, in his local accent, the name of that historical faith as "Joosh".

 

[A320 Driver]

Been a lot of uncalled for remarks made in crew rooms across America...and definantly CLT. Somebody should write a book.

LOL

A320 Driver

 

[UtterlyUdder]

I really doubt that Sully or Skiles will be anywhere near the witness stand. Could you give us a legal reason why? What do either of them know about the formation or running of usapa? This trial is about what usapa did. Nothing else.

Besides men of integrity would not let themselves be used as props in some emotional show.

They don't have tp be and that's because those jurors already know about them and what they did. I don't believe there is one person in this country or abroad that doesn't know about Sully and Skiles.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I agree. A jury can be a funny thing. Often, they don't care as much about procedure than how they might feel in the same situation. That is how I've seen it when I've served on jury duty. My point is, this is not a West slam/dunk. You NEVER know how they will react, but often they go by their own life experiences.

Later...

A320 Driver B)

A320 Driver,
Oooh...me thinks they are scared of having Sully and Skiles on the stand. I heard they are going. Skiles is the poster boy for how negatively the Nicolau list will affect a career. Sully started with PSA, he can testify how his PSA seniority was handled -- DOH. In essence, flight 1549 is an excellent example of how WELL a crew that started at former airlines worked together -- Allegheny, Piedmont, PSA, and USAir. What do they all have in common? Date of hire, that's how you do mergers.

Later,
Eye

 

[Megasnoop]

PA 18

We will be going to court now. So the question is how best to win our case. Jury trials can be a risky proposition, much more influenced by emotion. Just remember the O.J. trial. This fact can work for or against us in Phoenix.

WHICH O.J. trial? BTW, Bernie Madoff was just sentenced: 18 years without parole, as the live-in Nanny for the Octo-Mom.
Snoop

 

[Piedmont1984]

WHICH O.J. trial? BTW, Bernie Madoff was just sentenced: 18 years without parole, as the live-in Nanny for the Octo-Mom.
Snoop

Good point. I was refering to the original O.J. trial.

 

[Piedmont1984]

So now, instead of it being ALPA's fault or Nicalau's fault or the Wests' fault, it's going to be the fault of a "biased" jury from Arizona. YHGTBSM! That would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic....

It's not pathetic. It's strategy. All is fair in love and war - no?

Your remark is naive.

 

[wopr21]

A320 Driver,
Oooh...me thinks they are scared of having Sully and Skiles on the stand. I heard they are going. Skiles is the poster boy for how negatively the Nicolau list will affect a career. Sully started with PSA, he can testify how his PSA seniority was handled -- DOH. In essence, flight 1549 is an excellent example of how WELL a crew that started at former airlines worked together -- Allegheny, Piedmont, PSA, and USAir. What do they all have in common? Date of hire, that's how you do mergers.

Later,
Eye

Thats correct...It should have been DOH from the start. Simple , Fare and unbiased.
The evidence is overwhelming with the frustrating events over the past few years.
We would not be in this situation today if it was DOH.
More pilots except the concept than any other. Its the entitlement give me give me now daddy mentality that has put us where we are.

As I will clarify again that if the AW group had been more senior to me ,they would have gone above me. Thats the way it is. Thats the way I accept it and I will get mine as attrition occurs.

Simple Fare and unbiased

wopr

 

[Waketurbulence]

Are you people really that dense? Your hopes for an emotional appeal to the jury will NEVER be heard! This is contract law. The fairness of the Nic is NOT what is on trial here, a breach of contract is. As soon as the ambulance chaser Seman tries to introduce Sully or anyone else who wants to boo hoo to the jury, an objection will be made because it is irrelivent and it will be sustained by WAKE!

"This jury trial will only address the liability facts underlying
Plaintiffs’ class action. An additional bench trial will adjudicate any injunction-specific
facts shortly thereafter, and any monetary relief owing to the named plaintiffs and/or the
class could be dealt with in subsequent proceedings"

The above meaning, "it is NOT about the "fairness or unfairness" of the NIC"

This case is going to be easy to prove and here is why...This is from the most recent order from the Judge with regard to any further delay...

"Counsel for USAPA admits that
the parties have in place a factual stipulation that is “pretty comprehensive.â€￾ (Doc.
# 211, at 38.) USAPA points to no affirmative defense subjecting it to a significant
burden of proof; its main defenses have already been rejected at the dismissal stage. "

Other than falling on your knee's and crying for mercy to the jury, can any of you usapa cheerleaders give one example of any kind of defense to a breach of contract since even the Judge says you don't have one?

Oh, and it will be the crook Seman defending the case. The back up team that was brought in from Philly has a more pressing 28 million dollar case to chase so NO DELAY for the usapa lawyers....Again from the Judge...

"Mr. Brengle, USAPA’s trial counsel who was admitted pro hac vice in January
2009, attests that his work schedule will not permit him to conduct a trial in April, but the
convenience of counsel cannot outweigh the needs of the litigants and the Court’s trial
calendar."

AND if any of you would take the time to visit the uscapa website and actually read any of these court orders or any other legal history of this case, this from the judge, should send a chill down your spine...

"From the beginning, the Court has advised the parties of the great time urgency in
this matter. It holds profound importance for all parties concerned. USAPA has an
interest in removing the cloud of doubt surrounding its bargaining position. The Plaintiffs
and the class members have an interest in the adjudication of their complaints and injuries
arising out of the union’s alleged wrongs. And this four-year-old dispute within the union
obstructs the operations of a major airline in a troubled economy. As much as the
circumstances of this case make it the Court’s responsibility to effect a speedy resolution,
an expedited discovery schedule is both feasible and appropriate."

You don't think the Judge knows what usapa has done and is attempting to do? You are sadly mistaken. This is a Federal Judge and it's not his first day on the job. If and WHEN the West pilots prevail, I expect some SERIOUS orders from him that can and will force an end to this sham called the usapa "experiment."

 

[tazz]

PA 18

Yes, we Piedmont types wanted relative position. But when DOH was the decision, most of us reflected and accepted.

What was the merger policy/process used (at that time)?