US Pilots labor thread 11/5-

[exB717Flyer]

Are you talking about the current system you are using now? Maestro?

No, Maestro has nothing to do with PBS.

So there is really no advantage for the junior guy then, at least with our lines sometimes there are a few good or better trips thrown in with the crap.

The advantage is a less time consuming and less onerous process to get a similar result.

It IS really simple: PBS = pre planned absences = more predictability on coverage = greater productivity and less open time = fewer reserves for a given number of blockholders = more pilots on the street = BAD

You're referring to productivity issues, not PBS issues. PBS can be programmed to be as inefficient as any other system.

 

[boeingplt]

You're referring to productivity issues, not PBS issues. PBS can be programmed to be as inefficient as any other system.

I really don't think you understand. And I doubt that we have a chance of finding common ground but PBS costs jobs by it's nature not by its programming.

 

[exB717Flyer]

I don't understand? I've flown for three different carriers with line bidding and two with PBS. And you?

 

[boeingplt]

I don't understand? I've flown for three different carriers with line bidding and two with PBS. And you?

How many carriers have you flown for where you could compare staffing requirements with and without PBS with no other variables in flux? Well, we CAN compare staffing requirements for east vs west now and guess what? Tell you what, why don't you do the calculations yourself? Don't forget to factor in the more robust west work rules.

 

[exB717Flyer]

How many carriers have you flown for where you could compare staffing requirements with and without PBS with no other variables in flux?

None. I don't believe such an event has ever taken place. Once again, that's a job for the negotiators.

... PBS costs jobs by it's nature not by its programming.

Okay, I'll bite. What is PBS's "nature"? It's a computer program not a circus lion. A circus lion can turn on its handlers because that's what wild animals do. A PBS only does as it's programmed and nothing else. Changing to PBS has historically decreased pilot staffing requirements but that's only a consequence of those other variables.

 

[Tiger 1050]

It IS really simple: PBS = pre planned absences = more predictability on coverage = greater productivity and less open time = fewer reserves for a given number of blockholders = more pilots on the street = BAD


Thank You, Thank You, Love You Guys, I'll be here all week

Can't say I disagree with that...

One thing to think about is "globalization." Globalization results because PBS will not allow construction of illegal lines. PERIOD! If you are number one remember PBS is required to make ALL lines "legal." It can and has wrecked the most senior lines to facilitate the "all lines legal" requirement. Globalization! We used to see this in LAS all the time. So pro-PBS westies don't blow a bunch of sunshine in tight places just to show how much you like PBS. Fact is seniority is trumped to meet this parameter. Besides, as some have pointed out, garbage in garbage out. As long as the company controls the pairing construction and PBS parameters you'll still have a crappy system. The only appealing aspect of PBS (at least the way this company runs it) is not having to spend a bunch of time going through 4 billion lines...

 

[boeingplt]

None. I don't believe such an event has ever taken place. Once again, that's a job for the negotiators.Okay, I'll bite. What is PBS's "nature"? It's a computer program not a circus lion. A circus lion can turn on its handlers because that's what wild animals do. A PBS only does as it's programmed and nothing else. Changing to PBS has historically decreased pilot staffing requirements but that's only a consequence of those other variables.

One fundamental part of PBS is carving out the pre planned absences. This does two things, gives the Company a mechanism to fine tune reserve requirements and it limits the flexibility of a lineholder to maximize days off with vacation and incidentally with training, for example: pilot with seven days of vacation with linebuilding can touch either end or both ends of the vacation with trips which will be dropped into open time. This gives that pilot the opportunity to have more days off and places more time available for other pilots.

Big staffing issues at stake. If the Company was growing and maxed out on training I could see some justification, but with them furloughing like Paris Hilton shops I say stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[flybynite]

Hmm. I don't spend a lot of time going through the lines. But that's just me. I know so many f/a's that drag around all the trip pairing for all of the equipment for days on end trying to whittle them so they can place their bid. And I've been paperless for years. I download them and then scan thru them. Somehow I manage to get the pure lines and trips I want without all the hassle. I usually get my first or second choice.

But IMO I think we bid too much. I know I'll get smacked for that remark.

But back to the PBS. I'm not so sure it's the panacea most people think it is.

 

[luvn737s]

Big staffing issues at stake. If the Company was growing and maxed out on training I could see some justification, but with them furloughing like Paris Hilton shops I say stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

If you are concerned with preserving jobs, why cling to an inefficient system that unnecessarily costs jobs by impacting the costs of staffing? I get the impression that you really aren't worried about saving your job or anyone else's, merely avoiding learning something new.

It's obvious that the BPR isn't ready to part with their 1992 calendar either. They never know when it could come in handy again.

 

[exB717Flyer]

But back to the PBS. I'm not so sure it's the panacea most people think it is.

It's not a panacea at all. It's just an easier way to bid for your schedule.

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

What is the point of discussing PBS vs Line Bidding? It will only become an issue with a joint contract which in all likelihood will include Nic and as such will never even be put out for a vote, let alone get ratified.

 

[boeingplt]

If you are concerned with preserving jobs, why cling to an inefficient system that unnecessarily costs jobs by impacting the costs of staffing?

If giving to help with costs made for a strong airline US Airways would be the biggest, strongest airline in history. You've been hanging around USA320 too much.

 

[flybynite]

If you are concerned with preserving jobs, why cling to an inefficient system that unnecessarily costs jobs by impacting the costs of staffing? I get the impression that you really aren't worried about saving your job or anyone else's, merely avoiding learning something new.

It's obvious that the BPR isn't ready to part with their 1992 calendar either. They never know when it could come in handy again.

Oh, come on now. I'm sure if they can fly those newfangled fly by wire aircraft, they can handle a new software system.

 

[BLT]

http://www.airlinefinancials.com/Airline_A...is_pre_911.html

If you look at item #23 you will see that we have the second highest cost for pilot wages as a percentage of the average pass fare for all the legacy carriers.

Yet we have the lowest paid pilots.

I don't think demanding inefficient ways of doing business will solve this problem.

 

[boeingplt]

http://www.airlinefinancials.com/Airline_A...is_pre_911.html

If you look at item #23 you will see that we have the second highest cost for pilot wages as a percentage of the average pass fare for all the legacy carriers.

Yet we have the lowest paid pilots.

I don't think demanding inefficient ways of doing business will solve this problem.

See my previous post. Repeat as necessary.