US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

You altered a message from an AA pilot to further your argument. It quite obvious that you did it.

I want to know why you did so? Is your position that desperate that you've had to resort to that sort of trickery?

BS. What is "quite obvious" is that you're utterly bereft of even the rudimentary mental facility required to actually answer any of the offered questions, or clearly realize that doing so would allow you too little wiggle room for your pathetic hypocrisy, which in your case, requires a VERY spacious area indeed.

I'll cheerfully leave the readers to determine the degree of "desperate" you've shown there 😉

So...What the real truth is, is that you clearly can't actually answer: WHY isn't all the west BS "logic" that was eagerly employed justifying the nic, equally appropriate to the current scenario?
WHY is not using a "snapshot at the time of the merger" equally valid NOW? WHY isn't assigning ZERO value to those furloughed..in that they aren't going to "bring a job" to this dance, equally "reasonable" for this round? WHY isn't using "where you were at the time of the merger" equally valid now?...Ummm...and WHY can't you answer such simple questions? 😉

There's but few ways to go with this:

1) Your merry little band of zealous nicsters simply don't believe their own opportunistic BS
2) The premises used to justify the nic are naught but trumped up LIES.
3) The "ethics" of nicsters are unquestionably "situational", and are nothing more than a patina of polished BS, which can be removed and replaced whenever it suits them.
4) Nic supporters don't truly BELIEVE in relative seniority, one's position on a list at merger time/etc, as being ANY semblance of an actual PRINCIPLE!!!

You pick.

PS: I guess you really don't need any actual PRINCIPLES...after all....you've got "Integrity Matters" T shirts 😉

 

[EastUS1]

I think everyone understood the message and probably had already read the whole message.

I'd figured that a natural assumption as well, assuming that all concerned could actually read, which is an assumption I admittedly may have erred in with that individual, but hey, what do I know?...I still don't have one of those way-cool-Dude "Integrity Matters" T shirts 😉

 

[BoeingBoy]

Sorry Jim,

But you may be wrong on this....after all, the NIC was presented to the company, however, by the time the DOH list was presented, Parker could see the legal storm on the horizon and called time out. Just because you want to screw your old coworkers so badly you just can't freakin stand it, isn't going to make it so.

The legal matter of the NIC versus the DOH has never been answered, along with the TA not being complete, so we are still working under two seperate lists and seperate contracts.

Unless Silver rules before a merger, throw your tantrum all you want....it still doesn't make it true.

breeze

Like I said, the east faithful are clinging to one last straw and trying to convince everyone it's a life boat...

The desperation is so thick you could cut it with a knife...

Jim

 

[Phoenix]

BS. What is "quite obvious" is that you're utterly bereft of even the rudimentary mental facility required to actually answer any of the offered questions, or clearly realize that doing so would allow you too little wiggle room for your pathetic hypocrisy, which in your case, requires a VERY spacious area indeed.

I'll cheerfully leave the readers to determine the degree of "desperate" you've shown there 😉

Leave the readers to determine.. I am relieved... how quickly you have become comfortable, even cavalier with extending such liberty.. and you have progressed so far with so few years (oh, how many there were before our release) since being in the clutches of a far superior crowd that issued you an opinion when it was necessary/acceptable for you to have one.

 

[fodase]

Sorry Jim,

But you may be wrong on this....after all, the NIC was presented to the company, however, by the time the DOH list was presented, Parker could see the legal storm on the horizon and called time out. Just because you want to screw your old coworkers so badly you just can't freakin stand it, isn't going to make it so.

The legal matter of the NIC versus the DOH has never been answered, along with the TA not being complete, so we are still working under two seperate lists and seperate contracts.

Unless Silver rules before a merger, throw your tantrum all you want....it still doesn't make it true.

breeze

The list wasn't "presented" to Parker , it was legally accepted by the corporation as required by the ta. It is the current system wide list at lcc. Why can't you guys educate yourselves? The reason we are in judge silvers court room is because usapa wants to change the existing lcc list with a different list that benefits the east pilots. Make no mistake the seniority process is complete at lcc .

P. s. usapa wants to replace the EXISTING list at lcc.

 

[nic4us]

Funny how the west never brings up their impending liquidation plan which was so close to being implemented, "Project Zanzibar" ring a bell? 😱

What is even funnier is when you post complete lies to a thread of what is mostly well versed posters.

You are a liar,,a cheat,,,an idiot,, perfect poster boy for the scab union.

BTW...I do remember project zanzibar, which most readers of this thread also remember. That was the bankruptcy plan for AWA in the event that our available cash position dropped below certain limits, of which at the time we were still somewhat above.

Then zanzibar became irrelevant, because AWA bought your bankrupt airline, and raised soo much cash even the ATSB made a killing on our stock.

Now go try to rewrite some history over on the American thread where I am heading to expose your posts for the lies they are.

 

[mrbreeze]

Like I said, the east faithful are clinging to one last straw and trying to convince everyone it's a life boat...

The desperation is so thick you could cut it with a knife...

Jim

Desperation?

Actually, it really doesn't matter that much to me at this point. I have 5 yrs left and will probably retire as a NB Cpt at a better pay rate, or a senior FO on the 330 with a nice increase, just enough to get my ducks in a row for retirement. With the fences that will be set up, I will probably not be affected in the next 5 yrs, so there is no desperation for me.

I do believe that you are wrong though, and for the life of me can't figure out why you and trader want to see the ex coworkers screwed at every turn. If you had this kind of attitude when you were still on the line, I am sure your name was all over the panels overhead.

breeze

 

[EastUS1]

Leave the readers to determine.. I am relieved... how quickly you have become comfortable, even cavalier with extending such liberty.. and you have progressed so far with so few years (oh, how many there were before our release) since being in the clutches of a far superior crowd that issued you an opinion when it was necessary/acceptable for you to have one.

Shudder...I beg you kind sir!...Don't go there!...I still have alpa nightmares! 😉

 

[nic4us]

Sure each list is certified by the legal representatives as being correct.

Are you suggesting it would be correct to say the pilots are currently ordered by the USAPA proposal of DOH? Or maybe you mean they are currently ordered by the ALPA proposal? Which scheme would you say is currently "correct"? Not which scheme do you prefer, which is a correct current list? Ha, trick question.

Oh, wait. We have two lists that show status, type, and base and they look like they are correct (It happens to match with my paycheck, my flight history, my FAA currency requirements, and my little mail box where I receive pubs revisions--that mysteriously seem to correctly match what the two lists correctly say.) Correct? Try to get the company to let you have your A330 now and see what happens... eh.

Those my dear Watson are the current seniority lists, true and correct. Now, from those lists, you can argue a million and one ways about how they should be integrated with another list or two. You can write out a new proposal and scream about all the reasons you want to justify your new proposed list, to an arbitrator even, but you can't ask your beloved reps to lie about what the current lists are, because they have a duty to represent you truthfully. 😀

You are starting to catch on!

usapa has to represent us all truthfully, and the truth is the pilots they represent entered into a binding arbitration, that was concluded, then accepted by the company.

There are no do-over clauses. There is no "ratification vote". Truth is it is done.

So, if usapa walks into an arbitration with only two list..ie. east and West..they are not being truthful, they are not representing their pilots entirely.


Another thing...it is not the "ALPA proposal". It is the proposal reached by all LCC pilots. Tell me again who usapa is supposed to represent?

 

[mrbreeze]

The list wasn't "presented" to Parker , it was legally accepted by the corporation as required by the ta. It is the current system wide list at lcc. Why can't you guys educate yourselves? The reason we are in judge silvers court room is because usapa wants to change the existing lcc list with a different list that benefits the east pilots. Make no mistake the seniority process is complete at lcc .

P. s. usapa wants to replace the EXISTING list at lcc.

fodase,

I think you're wrong....there has been no legal settlement on this issue, it's still up in the air.....and even though you continue to call us scabs, which is out of line, you still have no conclusion to this legal matter. Chances are that Parker is not going to wait for a legal answer....he is under pressure to make this merger work, and I believe that he will just let it ride to the next arbitrator, who will take all matters into consideration. You may still win your precious NIC, but you guys are fooling yourselves thinking it will be an easy thing to integrate with the APA, who has the reputation of stapling their foes. They will do anything they can to push anyone down the list, me included.

breeze

 

[BoeingBoy]

Desperation?

Actually, it really doesn't matter that much to me at this point.

Actions speak louder than words...keep clutching that last straw while telling yourself it doesn't really matter...

Jim

 

[OTTER574]

Sorry Jim,

But you may be wrong on this....after all, the NIC was presented to the company, however, by the time the DOH list was presented, Parker could see the legal storm on the horizon and called time out. Just because you want to screw your old coworkers so badly you just can't freakin stand it, isn't going to make it so.

The legal matter of the NIC versus the DOH has never been answered, along with the TA not being complete, so we are still working under two seperate lists and seperate contracts.

Unless Silver rules before a merger, throw your tantrum all you want....it still doesn't make it true.

breeze

Parker accepted the only legal list.

The smoking gun letter from bradford was front and center (addington trial) as to why usapa was formed.

TA is complete with a joint contract with corporation and a union === NIC === Checkmate === usapa is dead!

Federal Judge Silver will be ruling on the liability the corporation (LCC) has in regards to usapa's illegal requests for a doh list. TA will be front and center to this liability.

If I forgot anything...I suggest you give your reps a call or better yet, call Bob Siegel/LCC corporate legal...they may be busy though, with real matters (APA) and not concerned with soon out of business east usapa cry babies like you.

OTTER

 

[mrbreeze]

Parker accepted the only legal list.

The smoking gun letter from bradford was front and center (addington trial) as to why usapa was formed.

TA is complete with a joint contract with corporation and a union === NIC === Checkmate === usapa is dead!

Federal Judge Silver will be ruling on the liability the corporation (LCC) has in regards to usapa's illegal requests for a doh list. TA will be front and center to this liability.

If I forgot anything...I suggest you give your reps a call or better yet, call Bob Siegel/LCC corporate legal...they may be busy though, with real matters (APA) and not concerned with soon out of business east usapa cry babies like you.

OTTER

USAPA has the responsibility to represent all pilots fairly, including the East pilots. Therefore, the legal objection to the NIC, which has not been resolved. Ya Know, Cleary may come out to be the hero in all this afterall.

Also, your immaturity is showing this early in the game and claiming USAPA has no say in the deal......they are still your legal representative.

breeze

 

[fodase]

fodase,

I think you're wrong....there has been no legal settlement on this issue, it's still up in the air.....and even though you continue to call us scabs, which is out of line, you still have no conclusion to this legal matter. Chances are that Parker is not going to wait for a legal answer....he is under pressure to make this merger work, and I believe that he will just let it ride to the next arbitrator, who will take all matters into consideration. You may still win your precious NIC, but you guys are fooling yourselves thinking it will be an easy thing to integrate with the APA, who has the reputation of stapling their foes. They willI do anything they can to push anyone down the list, me included.

breeze

breeze you are confused, there is only one legal question that hasn't been answered.
The legal question is wether or not usapa can replace the existing list, that is the only legal question. There is no question at what the current lcc List is, please educate yourself, the company told judge silver that the nicolau is the current list inherited by usapa, the question before silver is if usapa can replace the existing list

 

[BoeingBoy]

Therefore, the legal objection to the NIC, which has not been resolved.

You keep saying that, but what legal objection hasn't been resolved? Remember before you answer - the 9th didn't reverse the District court. They just said that it was too early to have the trial because USAPA might present something besides the Nic that was agreeable to the west (which USAPA still hasn't done).

Jim