US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Freebird]

Judge Silver has to refer to the 9th published opinions;

The Judge will rule that the union is allowed to negotiate all sections of the contract with the company and is responsible legally for the outcome. Same as Judge Wake ruled the company is not a party to any legal actions due to the operation of the union.

American Airlines and East will combine. west will combine with Frontier in PHX, but end up handled like the Midwest Airline Pilots.

You may DFR. It will take years, if you find a Law Firm that takes on a case that is questionable, from a group of west pilots that owe their current law firm over a million dollars and is mired in a identity theft scandal.

Book Mark this pal,

Signed

The messenger that brought you the bad news.

Such desperation. We must be seeing USAPA's final act.

USAPA = Show's over, nothing to see, move along...

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Judge Silver has to refer to the 9th published opinions;

The Judge will rule that the union is allowed to negotiate all sections of the contract with the company and is responsible legally for the outcome. Same as Judge Wake ruled the company is not a party to any legal actions due to the operation of the union.

American Airlines and East will combine. west will combine with Frontier in PHX, but end up handled like the Midwest Airline Pilots.

You may DFR. It will take years, if you find a Law Firm that takes on a case that is questionable, from a group of west pilots that owe their current law firm over a million dollars and is mired in a identity theft scandal.

Book Mark this pal,

Signed

The messenger that brought you the bad news.

Hyperbolic cartoons. Reading your posts is like listening to Radio Cuba, all invective and nonsense, but unintentionally funny. Not that you have ever been right, just funny.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Hyperbolic cartoons. Reading your posts is like listening to Radio Cuba, all invective and nonsense, but unintentionally funny. Not that you have ever been right, just funny.

Of course you think Doug Parker is Jesus. Now that's funny.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Judge Silver has to refer to the 9th published opinions;

The Judge will rule that the union is allowed to negotiate all sections of the contract with the company and is responsible legally for the outcome. Same as Judge Wake ruled the company is not a party to any legal actions due to the operation of the union.

American Airlines and East will combine. west will combine with Frontier in PHX, but end up handled like the Midwest Airline Pilots.

You may DFR. It will take years, if you find a Law Firm that takes on a case that is questionable, from a group of west pilots that owe their current law firm over a million dollars and is mired in a identity theft scandal.

Book Mark this pal,

Signed

The messenger that brought you the bad news.

You are so correct "RISK" guess how the new owners avoid litigation?, no-contract, NONIC,FRAGMENTATION , UN_MERGER, USELESS DFR , the JIM JONES of the WEST leading them! MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Judge Silver has to refer to the 9th published opinions;

The Judge will rule that the union is allowed to negotiate all sections of the contract with the company and is responsible legally for the outcome. Same as Judge Wake ruled the company is not a party to any legal actions due to the operation of the union.

American Airlines and East will combine. west will combine with Frontier in PHX, but end up handled like the Midwest Airline Pilots.

You may DFR. It will take years, if you find a Law Firm that takes on a case that is questionable, from a group of west pilots that owe their current law firm over a million dollars and is mired in a identity theft scandal.

Book Mark this pal,

Signed

The messenger that brought you the bad news.

You are so correct "RISK" guess how the new owners avoid litigation?, no-contract, NONIC,FRAGMENTATION , UN_MERGER, USELESS DFR , the JIM JONES of the WEST leading them! MM!

 

[Barrister]

Does this mean a card drive is under way?
[/quote

A suppposed UAL guy wants to know if a card drive is on at U......
tell me king sir WHY DO YOU CARE?????????????

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Barrister]

Issue preclusion, Collateral estoppel, whatever you call it? The same reason AOL filed the cross claim against usapa in the company DJ.

Silver is going to tell the company to pound sand. She is going to tell ole "johnny come lately", you had your chance to be found guilty with usapa, but you did the smart thing and got dismssed from the case. Too late, your out, figure it out yourself what an "unquestionably ripe hybrid DFR" claim means the next time you get sued by the West, who BTW every federal judge who has commented (we are up to 5 now), including the majority at the 9th, feels is being harmed. Oh, one more thing, you know what judges loathe more than interveneing in union negotiations? Helping scab unions renege on BINDING ARBITRATION.

Yeah, you're going to American alright. Right below the TWA furloughs and the Eagle flowthroughs. Enjoy your furlough, we all know it ain't the first time.

Bookmark this pal,

You are not the messenger, you are just an ass hole, see your last few hundred posts as PROOF!!!

You spend a lot of time here for a new hire.......you need to start a side carreer before you get ulcers!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[UtterlyUdder]

Did anonymous user Nosum stick his head out of his hole long enough to spew some more bs?

Nosum posting

Hey anonymous user Nosum, have you located that proof yet?

Jim
[/quote]



You know this is a public forum. Do you realize how idiotic your posts are at times? Just can't
let go?

 

[fodase]

Hey Clowns, I got some news for you that won't make you very happy. The APA, that is the american pilots union, has been redying themselves for a possible merger with old usair and has studied the seniority list issue, they have decided they would rather go into arbitration against the Nic. than a doh list and will insist on the Nic. being used (the only seniority list at usair) as such they have contacted Leonidas on the down low to keep up the fight so that usapa doesn't get a chance at modifying the list before we merge. Now don't take my word for it, I urge you to contact some apa officers and get it from the horse's mouth. How can they do this? well I guess majority rules.

 

[PullUp]

Hey Clowns, I got some news for you that won't make you very happy. The APA, that is the american pilots union, has been redying themselves for a possible merger with old usair and has studied the seniority list issue, they have decided they would rather go into arbitration against the Nic. than a doh list and will insist on the Nic. being used (the only seniority list at usair) as such they have contacted Leonidas on the down low to keep up the fight so that usapa doesn't get a chance at modifying the list before we merge. Now don't take my word for it, I urge you to contact some apa officers and get it from the horse's mouth. How can they do this? well I guess majority rules.

First, not merging with AA unless they wash through BK..then maybe Doug will scrape some cash together and buy them.
They are certainly not buying anyone right now...in fact, anyone want a regional spinoff with a bird on its tail? Bidders, anyone? Hello?
Timeframe for any merger is 3-5 years out, so don't worry about this now...a lot can and will happen between now and then.
Worry instead about surviving for 3-5 years...both as an airline, and as individuals living with substandard wages and benefits.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Timeframe for any merger is 3-5 years out, so don't worry about this now...a lot can and will happen between now and then. Worry instead about surviving for 3-5 years...both as an airline, and as individuals living with substandard wages and benefits.

some more substandard than others. Other than my pay trailing about 15% of where it should be, I'm quite happy where we're at. Just chatted with an ALK pilot of exact same longevity. He's more senior in his seat than I am, but that's because of the West going from 144 to 122 airplanes due to this abortion of a merger. You're welcome East. On the other hand, our (West) trip rigs are better than ALK's (5 hrs per day instead of 5:15); and they don't have PBS. West vacation is at the top of the industry. I know that our 4:17 a day for training tops DALs. Plus, I've got time measured in the decades to amortize the 15% I'm losing now. The best part of yesterday's conversation was about Kasher. Holy cow did this guy unload on him. Says Kasher cost him millions and that there's a feeling over there that Kasher must have been on the take based on how badly he rolled the ALK pilots. He outright laughed at the prospect of Kasher awarding East anything. His words: "I don't care if the contract flat out said snapbacks on whatever date and required no interpretation, Kasher will still rule against them."

I know. In fact, their arbitration didn't take half as long as LOA93.

What's Cleary hiding? We all know . . . .

Enjoy LOA93.

 

[fodase]

First, not merging with AA unless they wash through BK..then maybe Doug will scrape some cash together and buy them.
They are certainly not buying anyone right now...in fact, anyone want a regional spinoff with a bird on its tail? Bidders, anyone? Hello?
Timeframe for any merger is 3-5 years out, so don't worry about this now...a lot can and will happen between now and then.
Worry instead about surviving for 3-5 years...both as an airline, and as individuals living with substandard wages and benefits.

Of course the merger is not set in stone, but a smart pilot group plans for contingencies, APA and their counsel just happen to think IF a merger with usair comes it will be adversarial and they want the Nic. as the list to go to arbitration with. Think about it, the Nic. wipes out the east's longevity advantage over the american pilots, if you were them which list would you want US to bring?

 

[Metroyet]

The best part of yesterday's conversation was about Kasher. Holy cow did this guy unload on him. Says Kasher cost him millions and that there's a feeling over there that Kasher must have been on the take based on how badly he rolled the ALK pilots. He outright laughed at the prospect of Kasher awarding East anything. His words: "I don't care if the contract flat out said snapbacks on whatever date and required no interpretation, Kasher will still rule against them."

I know. In fact, their arbitration didn't take half as long as LOA93.

What's Cleary hiding? We all know . . . .

Enjoy LOA93.

I was floored when USCABA actually CHOSE Richard Kasher. After what he did to the Alaska Pilots, he should never be hired again...so in the perfect USCABA Bizzaro world fashion, Kasher made perfect sense.

 

[nic4us]

You spend a lot of time here for a new hire.......you need to start a side carreer before you get ulcers!!

NICDOA
NPJB

Drives you nuts that the furloughed guys like you are junior to the new hires, huh??

As a "new hire" who has been in the left seat of the 320 over a decade, let me just say, if I had been working on LOA93 for the last 7 years, I certainly would need side career.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Hey Clowns, I got some news for you that won't make you very happy. The APA, that is the american pilots union, has been redying themselves for a possible merger with old usair and has studied the seniority list issue, they have decided they would rather go into arbitration against the Nic. than a doh list and will insist on the Nic. being used (the only seniority list at usair) as such they have contacted Leonidas on the down low to keep up the fight so that usapa doesn't get a chance at modifying the list before we merge. Now don't take my word for it, I urge you to contact some apa officers and get it from the horse's mouth. How can they do this? well I guess majority rules.

I agree...

From APA's Flightline

When a merger transaction involves employee groups reaching a seniority integration can prove evenmore problematic. If either carrier involved in the transaction has specific language pertaining to seniority integration and or successorship, that language will apply only if it does not contradict the “fair and equitable standard” contained within the Allegheny-Mohawk/ALPA arbitration procedures. The role that management would have in integration discussions under these circumstances is unclear, as is the mechanism for a non-government private party to enforce any arbitrated decision. Also, the Allegheny-Mohawk/ALPA provisions do not guarantee a particular method of integration. It does not require a date-of-hire integration (something the US Airways pilots had hoped for during their acquisition), a ratio-based integration, or any other method. The method is left entirely to the two parties involved and possibly the arbitrator. In the decision made in the USAirways/America West case, federal arbitrator George Nicolau weighed the career expectations of both sides and concluded that the financial future of US Airways was “not comparable to or as bright as that of America West.” As a result, he rejected the US Airways pilots’ request for a seniority system based solely on date of hire and came up with a blended seniority list that put 517 of the US Airways’ most-senior pilots at the top of the list and ranked the rest according to their status at the time of the merger. This has created a great deal of friction and litigation between the two groups and resulted in the US Airways pilots voting out ALPA and creating their own independent union, the US Airline Pilots Association. To this day, the two pilot groups work under separate contracts in a divided operation, with no resolution in sight. The conflict has been such a burden, in terms of pilot morale and the delay in moving toward single carrier operations, that in two subsequent merger efforts by Delta/Northwest and Southwest/Frontier, each airline made sure to work out the pilot seniority integration methodology before it consummated the deal. In the latter case, Southwest decided not to proceed with the merger because the two pilot groups could not agree on seniority. To date, there has been little progress reported to the United/Continental seniority merger, but if the matter ended up in an arbitrator’s hands, it’s reasonable to assume that he would be likely to follow the model established by the Delta/Northwest arbitration.