US Pilots Labor Discussion
- Thread starter Richard
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oldiebutgoody
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- Aug 23, 2002
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Details, details.
nycbusdriver
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Sheesh! What a piece of work THAT Humpty WAWA is!
OTTER574
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- Jan 11, 2009
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usapa founder steve bradford will look really nice on the witness stand.
oldiebutgoody
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- Aug 23, 2002
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Certainly a piece of somethin'!
oldiebutgoody
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- Aug 23, 2002
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First you have to get lawyers that are competent enough to process subpoenas.
Oh, and a ratified contract. Don't want to forget that detail.
OTTER574
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- Jan 11, 2009
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"Unquestionable Ripe DFR"..quote from the ninth circuit. Go ahead and get the LCC corporation to go along with usapa's illegal scheme.
oldiebutgoody
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- Aug 23, 2002
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Thanks, we will. Since there is no "illegal scheme" it shouldn't be a problem.
Zone5
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- Dec 17, 2010
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Your sister is ugly, she is not, is to, is not.....
You are a SCAB, I am not, are to, am not.....
Unless everyone on this board want's to continue with this type of childish, school yard waste of band width, I suggest that we start with a definition of the word SCAB.
Lets start with Merriam-Webster.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scab
Definition of a SCAB:
a : a contemptible person
b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms
Now lets add some recent airline pilot perspective to the definition. On 12 Jun 2010 after years of unsuccessful mediation, the ALPA represented pilots at Spirit were released to self-help,a strike was initiated and rather quickly and successfully concluded.
http://spiritairlinesscabs.com/New_Legal.html
Spirit definition of a SCAB:
Some believe that the term "scab" is part of a larger metaphor; that the picket line is symbolic of a wound and those who break its borders to return to work are the scabs who bond that wound. Others have argued that the word is not a part of a larger metaphor but, rather, originates from an old-fashioned English insult. In short, the term SCAB is synonymous with strikebreaker.
To bring the above in to the context the situation UseLessAirways pilots currently find themselves in, allow me to state a few facts:
1. ALPA was legally voted off the property by a majority vote of the pilots and replaced by USAPA.
2. USAPA is the legally recognized collective bargaining agent for the pilots here, like it or not. The company knows it, the courts know it.
3. The negotiation process can only be drawn-out/delayed for so long. How long? Who knows! Regardless it will end in either a ratified JCBA or self-help.
In the event that a legal strike is voted for by the majority (here is where it might be helpful to be able to vote as a member in good standing) then someone who crosses that line and fly's the jet is unquestionably and forever a SCAB. The courts have upheld the right of a union to publicly name and publish lists of those who meet the above definition of SCAB. Conversely, it might very well be legally actionable to publicly call/name someone a SCAB who isn't. Suffice to say that there is a legally accepted definition of what a SCAB is and there are potential legal consequences to knowingly disregarding that definition.
The term "Union Busting" has been tossed around a lot on this board, perhaps while were at it we can define the term accurately:
http://definitions.uslegal.com/u/union-busting/
Definition of Union Busting:
Union busting refers to activities undertaken by employers, their proxies, and governments to prevent workers from freely organizing, joining and maintaining trade unions. A wide range of activities may be adopted by employers to hinder the functioning of unions.
Union busting is not defined as something employees engage in, it is something employers do.
To put it in additional perspective, are the pilots at AA "union busting" SCABS because they legally dumped ALPA?
Would the former West pilots be "union busting" SCABS, if a few years from now after a majority of the former East "old farts" are gone, they held a legally constituted representational election (here is another point where that ability to vote would come in handy) and voted USAPA out?
seajay
You are a SCAB, I am not, are to, am not.....
Unless everyone on this board want's to continue with this type of childish, school yard waste of band width, I suggest that we start with a definition of the word SCAB.
Lets start with Merriam-Webster.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scab
Definition of a SCAB:
a : a contemptible person
b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms
Now lets add some recent airline pilot perspective to the definition. On 12 Jun 2010 after years of unsuccessful mediation, the ALPA represented pilots at Spirit were released to self-help,a strike was initiated and rather quickly and successfully concluded.
http://spiritairlinesscabs.com/New_Legal.html
Spirit definition of a SCAB:
Some believe that the term "scab" is part of a larger metaphor; that the picket line is symbolic of a wound and those who break its borders to return to work are the scabs who bond that wound. Others have argued that the word is not a part of a larger metaphor but, rather, originates from an old-fashioned English insult. In short, the term SCAB is synonymous with strikebreaker.
To bring the above in to the context the situation UseLessAirways pilots currently find themselves in, allow me to state a few facts:
1. ALPA was legally voted off the property by a majority vote of the pilots and replaced by USAPA.
2. USAPA is the legally recognized collective bargaining agent for the pilots here, like it or not. The company knows it, the courts know it.
3. The negotiation process can only be drawn-out/delayed for so long. How long? Who knows! Regardless it will end in either a ratified JCBA or self-help.
In the event that a legal strike is voted for by the majority (here is where it might be helpful to be able to vote as a member in good standing) then someone who crosses that line and fly's the jet is unquestionably and forever a SCAB. The courts have upheld the right of a union to publicly name and publish lists of those who meet the above definition of SCAB. Conversely, it might very well be legally actionable to publicly call/name someone a SCAB who isn't. Suffice to say that there is a legally accepted definition of what a SCAB is and there are potential legal consequences to knowingly disregarding that definition.
The term "Union Busting" has been tossed around a lot on this board, perhaps while were at it we can define the term accurately:
http://definitions.uslegal.com/u/union-busting/
Definition of Union Busting:
Union busting refers to activities undertaken by employers, their proxies, and governments to prevent workers from freely organizing, joining and maintaining trade unions. A wide range of activities may be adopted by employers to hinder the functioning of unions.
Union busting is not defined as something employees engage in, it is something employers do.
To put it in additional perspective, are the pilots at AA "union busting" SCABS because they legally dumped ALPA?
Would the former West pilots be "union busting" SCABS, if a few years from now after a majority of the former East "old farts" are gone, they held a legally constituted representational election (here is another point where that ability to vote would come in handy) and voted USAPA out?
seajay
oldiebutgoody
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- Aug 23, 2002
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Seajay,
Please don't confuse the issue with facts. It only gets them upset.
Please don't confuse the issue with facts. It only gets them upset.
OTTER574
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- Jan 11, 2009
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Sorry to pop your bubble oldie, but this corrupt union called usapa is not in the drivers seat on this. You east pilots should've listened to ex alpa east mec slappen jack stephen.
Anytime lcc management, east/alpa and east/usapa pilots are in front of a neutral arbitrator/federal judge or a jury, the truth somehow floats to the top.
OTTER
oldiebutgoody
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- Aug 23, 2002
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I guess we'll see, now, won't we?
AWA320
Veteran
Look at them scatter like cock roaches when the lights are turned on! Talking only to themselves. UNION BUSTING SCAB!! Looking to convince the rest of the world that they didnt BUST A UNION! They tout they are an organization based on open communication but when 18 west pilots did they SUED UNDER A RICO ACT! RICO is an offense set aside for organized crime. They did this for no other reason then to attempt to bankrupt individual west pilot!! They are NOT UNION PILOTS THEY ARE UNION BUSTING SCABS and need to be treated as such!
They BUSTED A UNION FOR THEIR OWN SELFISH WANTS AND DESIRES AND THAT MAKES THEM UNION BUSTING SCABS!! True UNION brothers and sisters fight along side one another against the Ills of management ONE GOAL ONE VOICE!! Usapa is an organization built on the principle of LIES and DECEIT TO BRING HARM TO WEST PILOTS. A neutral we agreed upon refused to to harm the west pilots and the east BROKE THE UNION AS A RESULT in order to form their own to bring that harm us in the west. UNION BUSTING SCABS DESERVE NO RESPECT AS THEY ARE WITHOUT HONOR AND WITHOUT INTEGRITY.
AWA320
OTTER574
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- Jan 11, 2009
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Legal list or Illegal list...Try and convince Doug and the companies hired expert Robert A. Siegel (pro hac vice) in regards to this. Please bring along usapa's lee seham view on Contract Law and the RLA in front of Federal District Judge Silver.
nevergiveup
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- Nov 30, 2010
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Somebody needs a hug.
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