US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

Ray,
Spoken like a true ALPA rep.

HEY! DON'T BLAME ALPA! WE ARE ALPA!

Oh, pardon me.... I just awoke from a Pavlovian induced stupor that ALPA drilled into us over the decades. Every time ALPA was ridiculed we were programed to lash out with some B.S. line about how we should feel guilty because ALPA was only what we made it to be, since it swayed to our every desire.

Funny, how many years did we make excuses for them, trying to believe they really meant it.

 

[aquagreen73s]

The West does not want "an unquestionably ripe DFR".

Hey! Speak for yourself!

You do, but you are not going to get it. usapa is incapable of negotiating a contract.

Sadly you are probably correct. Nothing would have been better than two guilty verdicts for the same act, one practice and one for keeps.

And, if by some incredible quirk of fate you do, the contract will never be implemented as it will be immediately barred by injunction, once it is "unquestionably ripe".

usapa has created a catch 22 intentionally to delay the process. They have put the company into a bad place, and that is why Wake and Graber saw that the Addington case was ripe.

For all the east lurker out there, there is no contract coming under usapa. The company knows it, the West knows it, Wake and Graber knew it.

And, they are not fooling anyone, we all know usapa knows it.

Very true. The Angry F/Os knew they were facing a race against time. They had to get DOH put away quickly and smash the ability of the West to litigate. The couldn't do either and no matter how long this drags on, there is only one legally recognized list - Nicolau. NOTHING is going to change that.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

MM.

Ever stop and think that if the company is fragmented, the east's most senior pilots could get screwed the worse. I am talking about the 330 guys who would have nowhere to go, when nobody takes them with the planes.

Oh, and then there are the antique 757/767s that will hit the desert, no jobs for those guys. Probably the same for most of the 737s as well.

No I haven't because the"REALITY" is it is so far out of my, yours, or anyone elses control it makes no difference, like a roullete wheel when it stops it is what it is, simple economics. Institutional investors own LCC, when it goes in play any of us are powerless to stop it! Ask any, PAN AM, EASTERN, CONTINENTAL! Good news for you United, DELTA will be hiring, I'll be retired, but you'll still have JIM( boeingboy) for comfort, I'll be gone!MM!

 

[sumadarson]

Read my reply to RR.

The West does not want "an unquestionably ripe DFR". You do, but you are not going to get it.

usapa is incapable of negotiating a contract. You will never get DOH into a ratified contract. And, if by some incredible quirk of fate you do, the contract will never be implemented as it will be immediately barred by injunction, once it is "unquestionably ripe".

usapa has created a catch 22 intentionally to delay the process. They have put the company into a bad place, and that is why Wake and Graber saw that the Addington case was ripe.

For all the east lurker out there, there is no contract coming under usapa. The company knows it, the West knows it, Wake and Graber knew it.

And, they are not fooling anyone, we all know usapa knows it.

Your posts consistently reveal your lack of sophistication in matters that involve the realities of the mature adults environment. You will have yours in due time young one and will relish it more due to its harshness.

 

[nic4us]

Hate to call your bluff, but go ahead, name one. And west guys or their lawyers, or Mr. Nic, of course, don't count. And, we're not even asking for DOH, only DOH with C&Rs.



Go ahead, we're all waiting........

Can name 2 CEOs, Parker and Lakefield in their joint statement of labor principles.

What was the lawyers name in the infamous, don't let anybody know your intentions, cause it is a DFR, memo Addington entered into evidence at trial?

Judges, well Wake wrote an injunction barring DOH or anything other than the Nic.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Really? Seen a DOH seniority list at LCC yet?

Say it with me Oldie...the only accepted system seniority list at LCC is the Nicolau Award.

Gonna be that way for the duration.

You can't be trying to convince yourself of that, can you? Really? Still? Even after Doug explained the whole thing to you guys at TWO Crew News sessions?

Sounds like denial to me.

And yes, the seniority list is on the USAPA (you remember, our "bargaining unit", to use Doug's own words) website. You really should check it out sometime. That is, if you are a MIGS.

 

[OTTER574]

Dude, the BS ended Monday. It's all over. For details on the list, watch the December PHX Crew News video. Doug will explain it all to you. You may have been there and heard him explain it the first time, you just don't comprehend.

See that light at the end of the tunnel? That's the DOH train, bearing right down on ya. You can get on, or let it run you over, your choice.

Oh please tell all of us, so we can interpolate for all westies to know.

Oldie, you don't answer simple questions do you?

Can I now surmise that a staunch usapa supporter like you have based contract law on what chug-a-lug doug parker states in a crew news company video as fact? Along with his hand picked east VP team of course.

OTTER

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Can name 2 CEOs, Parker and Lakefield in their joint statement of labor principles.

What was the lawyers name in the infamous, don't let anybody know your intentions, cause it is a DFR, memo Addington entered into evidence at trial?

Judges, well Wake wrote an injunction barring DOH or anything other than the Nic.

Let's see 'em . Quotes or a link. Come on, give it a try. And remember, even USAPA isn't asking for straight DOH.

That lawsuit never happened. Legally it is a nonissue. Even the SCOTUS says so.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Read my reply to RR.

The West does not want "an unquestionably ripe DFR". You do, but you are not going to get it.

usapa is incapable of negotiating a contract. You will never get DOH into a ratified contract. And, if by some incredible quirk of fate you do, the contract will never be implemented as it will be immediately barred by injunction, once it is "unquestionably ripe".

usapa has created a catch 22 intentionally to delay the process. They have put the company into a bad place, and that is why Wake and Graber saw that the Addington case was ripe.

For all the east lurker out there, there is no contract coming under usapa. The company knows it, the West knows it, Wake and Graber knew it.

And, they are not fooling anyone, we all know usapa knows it.

The legal position taken by USAPA, that any challenge to a seniority integration proposal could not be heard in court until a final contract is negotiated and ratified, has now been fully vindicated by the Supreme Court. This favorable outcome was expected. Existing law, including the Supreme Court's ruling in another case many years ago, O'Neill v. ALPA (that the Addington attorneys also lost), sets forth the "final product of bargaining" rule relied upon by USAPA attorneys.

The Association intends to complete contract bargaining with the Company. In regards to seniority integration the Association seeks the same goal it has before, a contract that fairly represents all pilots that is capable of ratification by its members. Collateral to this goal, the Association will continue to guard its right to freely bargain for a new contract. It will vigorously defend against any other efforts to impose by lawsuit on its pilots contract terms, or a bargaining position.

Really did they(GRABER and WAKE) contribute to TOM DeLAY also? MM!

 

[Reed Richards]

Ummmm....the DFR will be "unquestionably ripe" according to Judge Tashima at ratification. DOH is on borrowed time.

Saw your later message about ignoring you. Not the case, but I don’t spend every waking hour here, so I had to go back and find this message.

Judge Tashima speaks the truth, trouble is you are looking at the painting and thinking the eyes are only following YOU!

Read between the lines. What the Ninth told all of us was WHEN a DFR would be ripe..after a ratified contract! What makes you think LEO is the only one waiting to file? What about Breeger? What about the East pilots who feel disenfranchised by USAPA?

Your time will come (hopefully, so I can get a raise.)

Indeed, it is "unquestionable" that USAPA will be ripe for a DFR following a ratified contract. USAPA, Seham, the Ninth, and even SCOTUS agree with that premise! You win!

RR

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Oh please tell all of us, so we can interpolate for all westies to know.

Oldie, you don't answer simple questions do you?

Can I now surmise that a staunch usapa supporter like you have based contract law on what chug-a-lug doug parker states in a crew news company video as fact? Along with his hand picked east VP team of course.

OTTER

Know what? Ask a direct question that hasn't already been asnwered here at least a dozen times, and you'll get a straight answer.

Mr. Parker impresses me as a pretty bright guy. It's his job to make money, and if he can get us to give it to him, that's our fault, not his. You guys will quote him when it suits you, but when it doesn't he's suddenly "chug-a-lug Doug". Calling him names only shows how much you underestimate him. And, if the CEO doesn't speak for the corporation, then who does? I actually think he does a pretty good job of trying to break up the sentences into two or three syllable words so that you westies might stand a chance of understanding him. Even if he does tend to "speak for effect" from time to time.

 

[OTTER574]

Know what? Ask a direct question that hasn't already been asnwered here at least a dozen times, and you'll get a straight answer.

Mr. Parker impresses me as a pretty bright guy. It's his job to make money, and if he can get us to give it to him, that's our fault, not his. You guys will quote him when it suits you, but when it doesn't he's suddenly "chug-a-lug Doug". Calling him names only shows how much you underestimate him. And, if the CEO doesn't speak for the corporation, then who does? I actually think he does a pretty good job of trying to break up the sentences into two or three syllable words so that you westies might stand a chance of understanding him. Even if he does tend to "speak for effect" from time to time.

Did doug parker accept a LEGAL list in regards to the TA?

Did a company official state such fact under oath in a Federal Court of Law?

 

[nic4us]

Your posts consistently reveal your lack of sophistication in matters that involve the realities of the mature adults environment. You will have yours in due time young one and will relish it more due to its harshness.

And your post consistently reveal your ignorance of who you are addressing.

Alot of anger there also.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Did doug parker accept a LEGAL list in regards to the TA?

Yes, but in the Crew News video he told you EXACTLY what that meant, and it's NOT what you apparently believe.

Was a company official stating such fact under oath in a Federal Court of Law?

I would assume so, but I don't know to what you are referring. Again, if it is in reference to accepting a list, see the Crew News video from December.

Doug TOLD you, in no uncertain terms, exactly what was meant by "accepting" the list. If you don't believe him, so be it. You would be the one in error, not him.

 

[nic4us]

Let's see 'em . Quotes or a link. Come on, give it a try. And remember, even USAPA isn't asking for straight DOH.

That lawsuit never happened. Legally it is a nonissue. Even the SCOTUS says so.

Well let me ask you this. Is the 9ths opinion in Addington now upheld?

Did not Tashima warn usapa of the "damages plaintiffs fear". Tashima told usapa, you are not getting DOH. Looks like the SC agrees with Tashima, you are not getting DOH.

As far as the others, read your own letter of labor priciples. The 2 CEOs told you you are not getting DOH.

You asked me not to include our lawers, so I left out Freund, and the entire ALPA legal department.

You can find the evidence in Addington, Bradford's lawyer telling him you are not getting DOH, even though the case has been dismissed.