US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Yeah, seems they put a gun to the FL head.

Legally, FL could have said "no" and insisted on arbitration. Personally I think that would have been a mistake - arbitrators have looked almost exclusively at the balance of equities for the last 2 decades and in some cases longer than that. In other words, they generally don't like to see one side getting all the benefits of a merger and give that side the seniority integration most favorable to it too. Sound familiar?

Plenty of talk about APA and Parker walking around USAPA.........

I have absolutely no idea what AA's internal timetable for their bankruptcy is - exit this year? Next? But Parker sure seems to want a merger to happen fast - or at least as fast as AA can get out of bankruptcy. I think that if he were able to he'd present his POR to the UCC tomorrow. And I doubt that he wants a merger held up for 2-3-4 years by lawsuits. So the safest and fastest course for him is to insist on integrating the Nic with the APA list.

Jim

 

[Move2CLT]

Yeah, I guess they will have a harder time with a prenup way around MB than SW did.

Why do you still have a picture of Jamie as your avatar?

Jamie was considered too crazy for even the angry FOs. And the bug-eyed, mustachioed picture of him embodies that perfectly.

But if you send me a picture of yourself, I'll be more than happy to change it.

 

[im back..!!]

Legally, FL could have said "no" and insisted on arbitration. Personally I think that would have been a mistake - arbitrators have looked almost exclusively at the balance of equities for the last 2 decades and in some cases longer than that. In other words, they generally don't like to see one side getting all the benefits of a merger and give that side the seniority integration most favorable to it too. Sound familiar?



I have absolutely no idea what AA's internal timetable for their bankruptcy is - exit this year? Next? But Parker sure seems to want a merger to happen fast - or at least as fast as AA can get out of bankruptcy. I think that if he were able to he'd present his POR to the UCC tomorrow. And I doubt that he wants a merger held up for 2-3-4 years by lawsuits. So the safest and fastest course for him is to insist on integrating the Nic with the APA list.

Jim

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It is an internal union squabble jim, it will never be settled (lie a divorce, it will end when one side runs out of money)..
It is like the first O J simpson trial, in my opinion, .....It may not be right, or ethical, or anything else....but it is what it is.....and that is : not implemented, dead on the vine.....

sorry, i'll be very suprised if nic is ever spoken of again in a short time...

i might be wrong, but i believe if it was so secure, it would have been implemented already...

 

[A320 Driver]

Proof? Of course not. How about at least posting a police report? Limited minds (that's you) love to throw allegations around but never seem to dig for facts... How'd that work for you during the Nicolau arbitration? Just keep believing what your reps feed you - Loa93, Addington, DOH, C18... You will remain a happy man.

Interesting that you should use the word "Proof". It usually implies guilt but with a lack of evidence. Funny you didn't just deny that it happened.

I have never been happier in my life, thanks much.

Driver...

 

[john john]

COC was a no show in this merger and I do not see how this next merger is different.

You mean USAirways was the acquired single purchaser of HP

 

[prechilill]

Interesting that you should use the word "Proof". It usually implies guilt but with a lack of evidence. Funny you didn't just deny that it happened.

I have never been happier in my life, thanks much.

Driver...

You funny! No doubt about it.
So, how about that proof, or are you just lying? Yep, that's what we all thought.

 

[nycbusdriver]

EastUS never is interested in meaningful communication. Only in being verbose and obtuse...

Jim

Verbose? LOL!

15,000+ posts and you are calling someone else "verbose?"

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I think every time a synapse fires, you let everybody know.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Could you say this ten or twelve more times?

I'll keep saying it until you guys figure it out, you haven't yet.

Will you east guys tell us again how much you suffered?

 

[john john]

I'll keep saying it until you guys figure it out, you haven't yet.

Will you east guys tell us again how much you suffered?

Will you suffer if the merger with AA goes thru

 

[nycbusdriver]

Speaking of absolutes.

The absolute stupidest thing usapa could do in representing east pilots, would be go into a future SLI with the APA and demand the use of three lists. West...east and APA.

The reason being is, if granted, the arbitrator could easily hand usapa their rear in a "fair" integration that would place east pilots on the combined list in positions less favorable than if usapa just used the Nic as the LCC list. It is even somewhat likely that West representation at any SLI threeway arbitration would ask for just that, and have a very good chance of getting it.

What you describe is exactly what will happen. The life of the Nicolau list resides in the current TA which was negotiated about 7 years ago among the two MECs and the company. That TA has always required a ratified contract to make the Nicolau list effective.

The company and USAPA have always been free to renegotiate the TA at any time...as it is simply a contract and parties are free to change the terms. Neither has shown any propensity to do so, therefore the TA is still in effect.

However, now that the company is looking to acquire AA, the current TA will likely be subsumed by a new TA, and the integration of seniority will likely have to use the current ACTIVE lists. That means at least three lists. Once the new TA is signed, the Nicolau will be history since its basis (the old TA) will be no longer. The integration process is spelled out very well in the McCaskill-Bond legislation. That's how it will go.

Is there a possibility that the APA will see eye-to-eye with USAPA and come up with a negotiated list. I think yes. APA doesn't really care one whit about the east or the west. USAPA can be very generous in negotiating a list culled from the three active lists. WHile the C&B-Ls mandate DOH, it also allows for restrictions and fences. I suspect that USAPA will be VERY generous in negotiating very high, very long-lived fences to make the AA pilots happy. The AA pilots have little interest in anything we have here, so fences will make good neighbors. If the APA goes along with DOH and, say, ten year fences and many restrictions that I can't even imagine, that will end it. Most of the east won't be here in ten years, so the easties get to go along on their merry way until retirement.

Otherwise, it will go to a McCaskill-Bond arbitration. This time, it's an arbitration with teeth, i.e. federally mandated as opposed to the Nicolau internal ALPA process (as the west attorney famously said, the Nicolau list is simply a bargaining position.) While the westies can dream of an arbitration team that will "stick it" to the east, it is highly unlikely. It is hard to imagine that the east would be worse off than the Nicolau if it came to a McCaskill-Bond arbitration. About the only group in jeopardy of losing some ground, I think, is my own east 517 (now more like 300.) But once decided, there will be no more possibility of stall tactics.

Bottom line: The Nicolau obscenity summarily dies with the new TA. Little doubt about that. DFR lawsuit? Who cares if the west wants to start over and spend their children's inheritance on more lawyers.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Yep....and going in front of an arbitrator as a group designed specifically to renege on an arbitration, and also owing West pilots seats as a result of other arbitations, while at the same time using the first arbitration to stay seperate and also renege on those arbitrations would likely cost the east very dearly in a threway.

Dream on, westie. Dream on.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Could you say this ten or twelve more times?

I'm sure it will.....but that will only bring the count up to 3492 times.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Legally, FL could have said "no" and insisted on arbitration. Personally I think that would have been a mistake - arbitrators have looked almost exclusively at the balance of equities for the last 2 decades and in some cases longer than that. In other words, they generally don't like to see one side getting all the benefits of a merger and give that side the seniority integration most favorable to it too. Sound familiar?



I have absolutely no idea what AA's internal timetable for their bankruptcy is - exit this year? Next? But Parker sure seems to want a merger to happen fast - or at least as fast as AA can get out of bankruptcy. I think that if he were able to he'd present his POR to the UCC tomorrow. And I doubt that he wants a merger held up for 2-3-4 years by lawsuits. So the safest and fastest course for him is to insist on integrating the Nic with the APA list.

Jim

He can "insist" till the cows come home. I will not happen fast if he "insists" on the Nicolau list, as that would be a breach of contract and only drag more things into court.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I'll keep saying it until you guys figure it out, you haven't yet.

Will you east guys tell us again how much you suffered?

Suffered? Maybe a bit, but keeping Nic at bay for 5 years has certainly served its purpose. In the big scheme of things, the minor suffering was worth it.

But we appreciate your concern. HAHA!

 

[Claxon]

"Screwed" by not getting DOH...the Nic and APA lists integrated by relative position/equip/seat is a far cry from the DOH the east has been seeking for 6-1/2 years...and almost no change from the Nic for the west...

Jim

Six and a half years says it all. Unattainable as the 9th implied. As in will not happen. The greed of the fanatical western junior ranks has been overtaken by the designs of Parker. The potential AA deal is the death blow to the greed of Leonidas. It will all be over soon. Leonidas has all the traits of the Postal system. Decline, angry workers.