US Pilots Labor Discussion

[OTTER574]

Recent westie posters,

The Chutzpah of you guys is unbelievable!

Listen up........No rational Eastie is buying the notion that somehow you folk hold the leverage card in any matter ( ie AA sli ) concerning the Nic. We have NOT and will NOT just forget what the 9th put in writing.

So keep your precious Nic safely tucked in that sun less void, we really are not threatened by your unending scenarios that imply

But but but ........if you only accept Nic .......Blah Blah Blah

FA

FA,

The 9th said, harm the west and it will be an UNQUESTIONABLE RIPE DFR.

I and every west pilot will get to determine whether or not we've been harmed. Not you, usapa, apa and or company.

And we've the mechanism in place to sue called AOL.

No real union/apa will take on/inherit A KNOWN DFR along with the Company/LCC/DJ looming.

Enjoy your day...

OTTER

 

[USA320Pilot]

NAC Update: April 24, 2012

I'm sure you were all concerned by the recent negotiations that took place between the Allied Pilots Association (APA) and US Airways' management, which will eventually also involve the pilots of US Airways. We find it interesting that this Management was able to conduct meaningful negotiations with a pilot group from another airline in record time, yet they have refused to treat their own pilots with the same respect. Obviously, during this process the Company's negotiators were the decision makers rather than the obstructionists we have been dealing with for the last four years.

Since we received the Conditional Labor and Plan of Reorganization Agreement on Friday, we have been in close contact with various committees and our advisors, and have begun the process of thoroughly analyzing the various components of the agreement. As every East pilot is painfully aware, the devil is in the details, of which we currently have very few. We are scheduled to meet with our counterparts at APA later this week to begin the process of answering our many questions. Prior to that meeting, we are also scheduled to meet with the NMB to discuss the status of negotiations in light of these recent developments.

We understand that you undoubtedly have many questions regarding this agreement, and as soon as we have something concrete to report you will be the first to know.

Thank you for your patience.

Paul DiOrio - Chairman
704-340-5098
pdiorio@usairlinepilots.org

Dean Colello
704-307-9768
dcolello@usairlinepilots.org

Or reach us both at: NAC@usairlinepilots.org

 

[USA320Pilot]

NAC Update: April 24, 2012

I'm sure you were all concerned by the recent negotiations that took place between the Allied Pilots Association (APA) and US Airways' management, which will eventually also involve the pilots of US Airways. We find it interesting that this Management was able to conduct meaningful negotiations with a pilot group from another airline in record time, yet they have refused to treat their own pilots with the same respect. Obviously, during this process the Company's negotiators were the decision makers rather than the obstructionists we have been dealing with for the last four years.

Since we received the Conditional Labor and Plan of Reorganization Agreement on Friday, we have been in close contact with various committees and our advisors, and have begun the process of thoroughly analyzing the various components of the agreement. As every East pilot is painfully aware, the devil is in the details, of which we currently have very few. We are scheduled to meet with our counterparts at APA later this week to begin the process of answering our many questions. Prior to that meeting, we are also scheduled to meet with the NMB to discuss the status of negotiations in light of these recent developments.

We understand that you undoubtedly have many questions regarding this agreement, and as soon as we have something concrete to report you will be the first to know.

Thank you for your patience.

Paul DiOrio - Chairman
704-340-5098
pdiorio@usairlinepilots.org

Dean Colello
704-307-9768
dcolello@usairlinepilots.org

Or reach us both at: NAC@usairlinepilots.org

Since the NAC and AA's pilot received the Conditional Labor and Plan of Reorganization Agreement last Friday why has our union not released the agreement to our pilots?

How come we can't see the so-called "devil in the details" too? What's the secret? I believe APA's NC will control the process and the CLPR will become our new contract; however, I'm tired of USAPA thinking we are too dumb to read the deal and make our own decision. Are you tired of being left in the dark by the NAC?

I sure hope Hummel fires DiOrio and Colello and replaces them with people who can "negotiate versus pontificate." DiOrio is great at pointing fingers and fails to deliver. Are you sick of it yet?

 

[USA320Pilot]

Would the East pilots be better off accepting the Nicolau Award?

When US Airways' pilots enter into the AA-US McCaskill-Bond SLI thee will have far inferior contract(s) to present to the Arbitrator than the AA pilots and we will have to explain why it was o.k. to disregard an Arbitrator's Opinion & Award. That should be fun to explain. I believe this will hurt US Airways' in the Arbitrator's AA-US SLI ordered C&Rs.

At Friday's APA DFW Domicile meeting the Officers indicated the Nicolau Award was not a factor in the upcoming US Airways-AA SLI. Why? The last four pilot seniority integrations were slotted by relative position, APA does not agree with DOH, and APA is preparing for negotiation, mediation, and binding arbitration. And, the US Airways pilot's new AA seniority number will be their current relative position on theirr current fleet across the combined AA, East, and West fleets.

Therefore, could the Nicolau Award be a better AA-US SLI starting point for the East pilots by having the top 517 positions? Right now the East and West pilots do not have a seniority integration or implemented list. Could the West pilots actually do better than the East pilots in the AA SLI because the three airline list will be relative position comprised of AA, East, & West flying with the East losing the top 517 positions?

How ironic it would be for USAPA to hurt the East pilots AA SLI and improve the West pilots SLI with a 1 to 1 to 1 McCaskill-Bond integration with a 7-year fence, the AA guys keeping their widebody flying, and then the AA and West pilots both capturing the East attrition. And, there is absolutely nothing USAPA can do about it.

Would the East pilots do better with the AA SLI if they had accepted the Nicolau Award and the top 517 positions? Me thinks so...

As one west pilot said, "criminally stupid" by having us enter into the McCaskill-Bond integration with LOA 93/C2204 as our contract(s) and not implementing the Nicolau Award, which would have given the East pilots the top 517 positions in the US-AWA SLI prior to the US-AA- SLI arbitration, which US Airways management will have a seat at the table.

 

[700UW]

Is it me or is it just weird someone replies to their own post?

 

[USA320Pilot]

How long will USAPA be the US Airways pilot's union?

According to the APA Negotiating Committee Update on April 20, 2012 "APA agreed in their conditional contract with US Airways "to file a single carrier petition with the National Mediation Board as soon as practicable after the effective date of the agreement." That's not after the merger, that's as soon as practicable after the TA is ratified by APA's pilots and US Airways.

Furthermore, as briefed to the APA pilots at last Friday's domicile meeting, "As far as representation goes it will be APA, the NMB is ready to move on that as soon as we get approval and there most likely won’t be a vote because it will be a 'friendly' takeover from USAPA."

Typically, the unions decide when to file a petition for single carrier/single transportation system status with National Mediation Board (NMB). The next step would be the NMB granting that status. The NMB election would follow for the combined carriers.

However, and I'm not an expert in this, but I believe there is an NMB provision that if an election result is known because there is a clear majority and/or the other union has proven to be dysfunctional (Permanent Injunction, NMB assisted new contract negotiations parked, alleged election fraud like in the Appeal Board election), the NMB can order a takeover of a union in a merger.

I believe Doug Parker was punched in the eye by USAPA, he no longer will work with this union with the exception of Gary Hummel convincing Doug otherwise, and US Airways' pilots could have APA as their union the day the merger closes with an order from the NMB with input from the DOL-OLMS.

In my opinion, USAPA's days are numbered one way or another and there is little, if nothing, the union can do about it.

 

[USA320Pilot]

It has been four days since the NAC received the APA Conditional Labor and Plan of Reorganization Agreement and USAPA has not shared it with the pilots. Where is the transparency? How come AA's pilots can read the agreement with US Airways' management and US Airways' pilots cannot?

 

[fodase]

Recent westie posters,

The Chutzpah of you guys is unbelievable!

Listen up........No rational Eastie is buying the notion that somehow you folk hold the leverage card in any matter ( ie AA sli ) concerning the Nic. We have NOT and will NOT just forget what the 9th put in writing.

So keep your precious Nic safely tucked in that sun less void, we really are not threatened by your unending scenarios that imply

But but but ........if you only accept Nic .......Blah Blah Blah

FA

Maybe you can tell us what other combined list exists at lcc right now? If there isn't another one, what are the chances one will be negotiated before this deal goes thru? Thanks in advance.

 

[OTTER574]

It has been four days since the NAC received the APA Conditional Labor and Plan of Reorganization Agreement and USAPA has not shared it with the pilots. Where is the transparency? How come AA's pilots can read the agreement with US Airways' management and US Airways' pilots cannot?

Boy...does usapa still have phone service at their worldwide headquarters in CLT?????? Maybe a NASCAR event in town??

Nothing but the best from our so-called open and transparent union called usapa...may it RIP and hopefully soon.

OTTER

 

[Phoenix]

Is it me or is it just weird someone replies to their own post?

Sorta like having a conversation while pushing a grocery shopping cart down the sidewalk.

 

[fatherabraham]

Rational eastie? There is a rarely used term.

You keep reminding any body that will listen what the ninth said. But events are going to over run you. Welcome to the minority boys. The majority is not going to let you guys screw this merger up like you did the last one.

CD,

Oh no doubt the majority will flex their muscle . You will then see that the AAA majority went out of their way to protect their newfound brethren at AWA, only to be scoffed at.
Over and over I hear your kind relegate to the fact that APA will be in TOTAL control . Seemingly ok now but fat chance with the AAA majority in the past.

Recently asked a 91 AA md80 c/o if he was ok with Nic sli integration concept.
He abruptly said " No, you guys should have placed them on the bottom of list " .

BTW.......eons since I mentioned the 9th as its pointless to hear the westie spin as a reply.

FA

 

[BoeingBoy]

"to file a single carrier petition with the National Mediation Board as soon as practicable after the effective date of the agreement." That's not after the merger, that's as soon as practicable after the TA is ratified by APA's pilots and US Airways.

I'd be very surprised if the NMB did anything prior to a POR including a merger being approved - until then there's no guarantee that a merger will happen. I don't recall the NMB ever giving single carrier status to carriers that hadn't actually merged yet.

However, and I'm not an expert in this, but I believe there is an NMB provision that if an election result is known because there is a clear majority and/or the other union has proven to be dysfunctional (Permanent Injunction, NMB assisted new contract negotiations parked, alleged election fraud like in the Appeal Board election), the NMB can order a takeover of a union in a merger.

A CBA can be voluntarily recognized by the company if there are no representational disputes. Other than that, it take 35% of the members of a craft/class to get a single carrier determination, which APA presumably would have no trouble getting given their majority. I believe that for USAPA to be on the ballot it would also need 35% of the craft/class which might be difficult to achieve since presumably it would only be east pilots that would support USAPA.

Jim

 

[dca319]

Recent westie posters,

The Chutzpah of you guys is unbelievable!

Listen up........No rational Eastie is buying the notion that somehow you folk hold the leverage card in any matter ( ie AA sli ) concerning the Nic. We have NOT and will NOT just forget what the 9th put in writing.

So keep your precious Nic safely tucked in that sun less void, we really are not threatened by your unending scenarios that imply

But but but ........if you only accept Nic .......Blah Blah Blah

FA

To the west. Please understand that this individual now represents a small and vocal minority. My proof is the recall attempts, Hummel's election, and the corralling of the CLT representatives. We are sick and tired of the situations a certain group of pilots keeps putting us into. Our pensions, Loa93, and this integration. This merger allows us to move on and we are willing to do so with Niclau. It's not like we have much of a choice in that. This fight for the most of us is over.

 

[Beancounter]

Since the NAC and AA's pilot received the Conditional Labor and Plan of Reorganization Agreement last Friday why has our union not released the agreement to our pilots?

How come we can't see the so-called "devil in the details" too? What's the secret? I believe APA's NC will control the process and the CLPR will become our new contract; however, I'm tired of USAPA thinking we are too dumb to read the deal and make our own decision. Are you tired of being left in the dark by the NAC?

I sure hope Hummel fires DiOrio and Colello and replaces them with people who can "negotiate versus pontificate." DiOrio is great at pointing fingers and fails to deliver. Are you sick of it yet?

I'm sure the documents are being translated to represent USAPA's take on reality as we speak. Aren't these some of the same numb-nuts that were part of the seniority arbitration with ALPA? I remember one of our union guys got a hold of the so called notes that were being fed back to the east pilots. His response was, "I don't know what room these guys were in, but it sure wasn't where the arbitration was going on." It's hard to make intelligent decisions when the people that are supposed to be feeding you accurate information are misleading you or filtering it to match what they want.

I too hope Hummel kicks some tail.

I've been sick of this cr@p for a long time.

Bean

 

[fatherabraham]

Is it me or is it just weird someone replies to their own post?

Did you note he signed Chip at bottom of a letter?
Guess its fair game now to reference the Chipster

FA