US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/9- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[BoeingBoy]

Please.....

Another legal opinion from a non-lawyer - there's plenty of that on both sides, including my opinions.

However, don't confuse "case" with "trial". Someone can have a valid case, but decide it's not worth the cost/aggravation of filing a suit and taking it to trial. Likewise, someone can have what they think is a valid case, but the judge or jury will decide whether it is actually valid or not. Dismissed for lack of ripeness means nothing more than what it says - the trial was held too early. It implies nothing about the merits once ripeness occurs. I notice that the 9th didn't say "The suit lacked ripeness so we couldn't rule on merit because there is none ", but they did say that they didn't rule on merit.

Jim

 

[767jetz]

Please.....the case was DISMISSED DUE TO RIPENESS. Which means it should not have been heard.

But it was heard. Which is why it can't be erased from history. It may or may not have not legal bearing in the future. (Are you paying attention to the company's current case which could suddenly make the Addington case ripe?) But either way, the discovery and testimony are on record, and the statute of limitations is met.

You won't find words from the 9th saying the case had no merit because they couldn't. What they did say was:......wait for it......wait for it........'it's not even a case yet'! Having found the case not ripe they could not rule on merit because they essentially did not exist for this case once the case was found to be NOT RIPE.

We'll it's certainly a creative way to interpret what was and was not said. IMO you are reading between the lines far too much. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

[Freebird]

Hi Freebird,

FYI...His little FRA trip is a 17+ hour 3day (barely a 3 day, actually 45 hours TAFB) with a great overnight and easy NAT flying

Just got back from Athens. Over 21 hours pay for a very easy 3 day.

The pay rate may not be as "lucrative" as it was, maybe will be better in the future, but one thing for sure...the flying is fantastic, the overnite beat the pants off the "Twin Palms" or anything domestic. Heck, even our "Junior" GLA or DUB or MAN trips are a blast!

You can keep all that lucrative, high yield flying at American West. Separate ops is the way to go. For some reason some of you guys believe that our attrition etc...(Nic) can be bought...It's not all about the money.

Yassou!

Thanks for the update. I look forward to flying the Europe routes soon. How long is the transition course on the -330?

About 'your' attrition. Read the Nicolau Award, he's the guy you picked to arbitrate the seniority list, and he clearly states in his decision how his formula protects the career expectations of all pilots. He didn't subscribe to the me, me, me formula.

You must be fairly senior to be on the -330. How does the Captain you fly with (forgot, you're all Intl Captains ) like flying the "Heavy" at such low pay?


USAirways A330 $160
Airtran B717 $153
Frontier A319 $156
SWA B737 $206 Bags fly Free
Spirit A320 $152
Delta MD90 $159
Hawaiian A330/717 $180/157


Enjoy the 'Lucrative' Flying. Keep your chin up. At least your neighbors still think you're cool.


Usapa = Wasting Away Again in Myopiaville,
Searching for Integrity here in the dark.
Some people claim that it's George Nicolau to blame,
But I know, It's our damn fault...

 

[Freebird]

Don't worry. Vasin, Koontz and especially Jacobs are busy engineering another costly mistake. The pipeline terminates at Posinelli Shugart like a hit at the Marcellus Shale.
Leonidas=Jacobs=Just Another Cash Or Bond Suckdown J.A.C.O.B.S.

We hear your Desperation loud and clear.

Keep kissing Cleary's ring.

BTW, hows the infighting going over at Usapa? Is Cleary focused on getting a contract or feathering his nest? His Weasel Pack are circling the wagons. LOA93 must not be that bad.


Usapa = Watch what we say, not what we do...

 

[luvthe9]

Thanks for the update. I look forward to flying the Europe routes soon. How long is the transition course on the -330?

About 'your' attrition. Read the Nicolau Award, he's the guy you picked to arbitrate the seniority list, and he clearly states in his decision how his formula protects the career expectations of all pilots. He didn't subscribe to the me, me, me formula.

You must be fairly senior to be on the -330. How does the Captain you fly with (forgot, you're all Intl Captains ) like flying the "Heavy" at such low pay?


USAirways A330 $160
Airtran B717 $153
Frontier A319 $156
SWA B737 $206 Bags fly Free
Spirit A320 $152
Delta MD90 $159
Hawaiian A330/717 $180/157


Enjoy the 'Lucrative' Flying. Keep your chin up. At least your neighbors still think you're cool.


Usapa = Wasting Away Again in Myopiaville,
Searching for Integrity here in the dark.
Some people claim that it's George Nicolau to blame,
But I know, It's our damn fault...

Welcome aboard Freebird. You got first break. Just remember, if Kasher delivers, you better hope you have a hire date around 84 to pull gear for us.

Leonidas: "The priest is on the phone, Leonidas hit the wall........."

 

[kubotapilot]

Hi Freebird,

You wont be disappointed with the EU flying. For me, its the best part-time job I have ever had! It allows me to "play" when I do fly, and run the business with all the time I have on the farm/home.

The 330 is a separate type, hence no transition, full initial. I wish my time on the 320 would have counted for something.

I now have no need to read the Nic as it is now irrelevant. FYI, "I" didn't choose him, our previous representation did, but we've all but beaten that topic to the ground already haven't we?

I actually enjoy the flying even at the current pay. See above regarding the part time job. In my previous reply to you I explained my take on the pay issue so I don't quite understand your fixation on it?

IE; continuous posting of information we all already know? It's like your trying to convince us to grab for $$ and a contract proposal that as of now doesn't exist, and probably won't for some time to come.

My chin has always been up. It never had anything to do with what I was flying or impressing anyone. That's not the reason I took the job at U so many years ago. My nearest neighbors are over 1/2 mile away and could care less about what my other "day job" is.

Personally, the most important thing to me other than family is how my business is perceived by my customers. In that regard I am very fortunate as I have many more customers than product to sell.

Being that you are fixated on the hourly rate thing...were you around for the short time at HP when they had 74's ? What was the pay like back then in comparison to what other carriers were paying on that eq type? Would also like to know what your feelings were during the many years that HP was the bottom leader (pay wise) just curious...

You still don't get it do you? It is not about the pay or the glamor The pay may get better, the "job" never was glamorous and anyone who follows this career path for the "Glamor" or to impress anyone is a fool.

Thanks for the update. I look forward to flying the Europe routes soon. How long is the transition course on the -330?

About 'your' attrition. Read the Nicolau Award, he's the guy you picked to arbitrate the seniority list, and he clearly states in his decision how his formula protects the career expectations of all pilots. He didn't subscribe to the me, me, me formula.

You must be fairly senior to be on the -330. How does the Captain you fly with (forgot, you're all Intl Captains ) like flying the "Heavy" at such low pay?


USAirways A330 $160
Airtran B717 $153
Frontier A319 $156
SWA B737 $206 Bags fly Free
Spirit A320 $152
Delta MD90 $159
Hawaiian A330/717 $180/157


Enjoy the 'Lucrative' Flying. Keep your chin up. At least your neighbors still think you're cool.


Usapa = Wasting Away Again in Myopiaville,
Searching for Integrity here in the dark.
Some people claim that it's George Nicolau to blame,
But I know, It's our damn fault...

 

[BLT]

Have you been paying attention. The EAST is well aware

You are well aware you don't work for the old USAirways.
You are well aware that you now work for America West.
You should now be well aware that your DOH began on the date of the merger.
You should now be well aware that your DOH at the "Old USAir" is no longer relevant.

 

[john john]

Not with pilots during a merger however.

Only in cases when other group got screwed. Stapled

DOH has been used consistently in past union mergers
With pilots

 

[BoeingBoy]

Not in the last two decades...

Jim

 

[john john]

You are well aware you don't work for the old USAirways.
You are well aware that you now work for America West.
You should now be well aware that your DOH began on the date of the merger.
You should now be well aware that your DOH at the "Old USAir" is no longer relevant.

YES
YES
NO all union groups by DOH
YES all union groups go by DOH with the airline they merged with

 

[john john]

Not in the last two decades...

Jim

Past practice
Is the union standard in union merger

Were not talking about changing pants

 

[BLT]

YES
YES
NO all union groups by DOH
YES all union groups go by DOH with the airline they merged with

You forgot to mention that it is the "gold standard".

Please cite recent examples of DOH mergers. Pilots only please. Thank you.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Past practice
Is the union standard in union merger

Two decades of past practice for pilots, including US/Shuttle, say not DOH. If anyone wants to merge by AFA policy, they should have been a FA instead of a pilot.

Jim

 

[Black Swan]

Two decades of past practice for pilots, including US/Shuttle, say not DOH. If anyone wants to merge by AFA policy, they should have been a FA instead of a pilot.

Jim

No, they don't need to be an F/A. They need to dump ALPA.
Directly corresponds to ALPA whose merger policy swung in the breeze in order to appease whatever carrier had the most cash and members at the time. This is why ALPA is directly in danger of losing more carriers. Nobody needs them or their ridiculous merger ideas anymore. Next time you see a Delta Pilot, tell him/her the benefits of being independent. USAPA best money I have EVER spent.

 

[Black Swan]

You are well aware you don't work for the old USAirways.
You are well aware that you now work for America West.
You should now be well aware that your DOH began on the date of the merger.
You should now be well aware that your DOH at the "Old USAir" is no longer relevant.

Yes
No
Hell No
Double Hell No