US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/23- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[traderjake]

He tells the west pilots how he coined the term "lottery ticket that you can't cash".

Hate

He said that under ALPA with two MECs, the NIC award was "like a lottery ticket that could not be cashed".

He did not say what you and many USAPA supporters claim, that the West won the lottery and could not cash the ticket.

You USAPA guys really are blind to reality.

 

[Pi brat]

Sorry, my mistake. I did not mean you specifically.

I meant to say "You can disagree" and should have said "One can disagree".

Do you disagree with what I said?

Thanks for the clarification. As with most things, I agree with some of your post, but not all. I don't disagree because it didn't go DOH.

You said "It's slotting by equipment and status.", but it wasn't for everyone (actually large portions of the lists were not slotted at all) and that is one of the things that confound me about it. I think the top 517 going east while the majority of the rest of the list was slotted was a strange way of dealing with the widebodies and hurts the top west pilots. I agree that putting a 5 year guy beside a 15 year guy doesn't matter when taken by itself(there is a difference in longevity and seniority), but taken in the context that going forward it gives some west pilots much greater relative position, I don't think its right.

You are entitled to your opinion and thanks for answering and doing it in a civil manner.

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

Wow, WN just bought AirTran, lets see how their pilots merge.

 

[Richard]

Discuss that merger in the appropriate forum.... Good luck to All....

 

[RSVP767]

Wow, WN just bought AirTran, lets see how their pilots merge.

Should be interesting. Adds another fleet type to WN (probably not for long as I expect they will shed the 717's). One thing for sure, they will be integrated and flying together long before us.

Best part......ALPA loses another airline and 1678 dues paying members!

 

[Freebird]

Should be interesting. Adds another fleet type to WN (probably not for long as I expect they will shed the 717's). One thing for sure, they will be integrated and flying together long before us.

Best part......ALPA loses another airline and 1678 dues paying members!

Now you make less than Airtran pilots. Good job Usapa.


Usapa = Ship of Fools. Accepting applications.

 

[luvthe9]

Best part......ALPA loses another airline and 1678 dues paying members!

Outstanding!!!!!!!!!!

 

[nycbusdriver]

In a word... USAPA. Most significantly, the biggest reason is that you guys did the seniority before the Joint CBA. That's putting the cart before the horse, and allowed the east, and particularly the east junior f/o's who stand to gain the most from weaseling out of binding arbitration, the opportunity to derail the entire process and land everyone in the purgatory of endless litigation.

Wait a second.

It was the ALPA east MEC that pulled out of joint negotiations LONG BEFORE USAPA was even in the running to become the bargaining agent. Once they were certified, they were at the table with the company within 60 days, and have been there ever since (at least when the company deems to come to the table.)

I agree, in theory, that a joint CBA would have been a complete deal changer in the current seniority list mess. But it was Parker who was not bargaining in good faith before Nic decreed. Has the company offered a realistically decent contract (the Kirby proposal of the west contract plus three percent is NOT realistically decent....it's crap,) we would have a merged seniority list, lots of east f/o's now being "former east f/o's medically retired," and probably be in the midst of another merger.

ALPA's nefarious actions allowed (i.e. forced) the derailment of the process by guaranteeing a USAPA win.

 

[nic4us]

Watching the West Crew News with Kirby.............desperation from the west pilots in the room?

Kirby has got the pulse of the east pilots! He tells the west pilots how he coined the term "lottery ticket that you can't cash".

He mentions Johnny Mac and the lottery ticket hanging in his office. Funny stuff! I kept thinking of Wye River during the video.

Nice American West shirt?

Time is running out. Keep the donations coming.

Hate

Very interesting how two people can watch the same video and take away completely different opinions of what was said.

Hate believes Kirby has the pulse of the east pilots. So is Hate saying the east pilots agree with Kirby when he very emphatically describes the situation the company finds itself in? That being that the district court judge had a trial in which usapa was found guilty. Then the 9th had a dissenting opinion that concurrs with the district court, and a majority opinion that did not address the "thorny issue", but outright warns usapa not to persue its reckless behavior, otherwise it will get the hammer of the "unquestionably ripe DFR".

What I took away is that the company wants out of having to negotiate with usapa over seniority. The entire premise being they are nuetral, they were asked by the union to stay out of seniority, they did, the Nic resulted. Now usapa wants to renegotiate seniority with the same company that they asked to stay out of it, and the company does not want to be tied to the lawsuit that they and every other bystander knows is a loser for usapa.

 

[Metroyet]

Outstanding!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed. ALPA would have simply sold Airtran down the river like the Fat Mustachioed Coward Prater did to the Pilots of America West. Smaller carriers in the ALPA fold need to know that they're up a creek if merging with another airline with more dues paying members. Tubby let the cat out of the bag on that one.

 

[DesertFA66]

I would like to personally thank the East pilots for holding the airline hostage over the past several years, keeping us standing in the wings and watching the industry wrap around US. It has become so crystal clear to me why US Air was always in trouble.

 

[RSVP767]

Now you make less than Airtran pilots. Good job Usapa.


Usapa = Ship of Fools. Accepting applications.

That is correct.......we are still under our wonderful ALPA contract. Please give credit where credit is due!

 

[nic4us]

That is correct.......we are still under our wonderful ALPA contract. Please give credit where credit is due!

and it is under that ALPA contract the east will stay until usapa learns the meaning of good faith.

All this talk of who is stalling at the bargaining table is ridiculous. usapa does not have the means, the intelligence, or the integrity to secure a contract for this pilot group. usapa is incapable of bargaining in good faith,

Looks like we will live with our respective ALPA contracts for some time to come.

 

[traderjake]

You said "It's slotting by equipment and status.", but it wasn't for everyone (actually large portions of the lists were not slotted at all) and that is one of the things that confound me about it. I think the top 517 going east while the majority of the rest of the list was slotted was a strange way of dealing with the widebodies and hurts the top west pilots.

"In its Opinion and Award, the Board integrated the seniority lists by reserving a number of positions (commensurate with the staffing of the A330 and B767) at the top of the list for the former East pilots on the theory that the West pilots did not have expectations to fly widebody equipment. The remainder of the list was an integration of active pilots through ratios derived from fleet and seat data."

From

http://www.pilotsunited.com/articles/merger_cte_5-4-10.html

Is what I said not correct?

The Delta Northwest arbitration results for your brother Bill McKee from the same article : )

"In its Opinion and Award, the Board rejected both Northwest’s DOH and Dynamic List approaches. Instead, it adopted Delta’s Status and Category methodology but based on four categories (widebody captains, narrow body captains, widebody FOs and narrow body FOs) rather than seven. Remember that a Status and Category methodology is only concerned with the number of positions brought to the arbitration, not to individual pilots’ current equipment bid position. The Board also incorporated a Pull-and-Plug mechanism to accommodate the Northwest pilots’ assertion that their higher rate of attrition from retirements should be taken into account. This methodology resulted in removing the oldest 274 Northwest pilots from the Northwest pre-merger list, applying the ratios to the remaining pilots and reinserting the removed pilots directly above the next junior Northwest pilot thereafter. The Board also added some conditions and restrictions that created five year fences around each group’s respective premium aircraft (B777, B747, and B787)."

 

[Phoenix]

Now you make less than Airtran pilots. Good job Usapa.


Usapa = Ship of Fools. Accepting applications.

Since when did you believe in pay parity before a single contract.