US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/23- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[mikey60]

I would like to personally thank the East pilots for holding the airline hostage over the past several years, keeping us standing in the wings and watching the industry wrap around US. It has become so crystal clear to me why US Air was always in trouble.

DESERT

This could be cleared up very fast, have your friends out west say yes to DOH.

 

[Phoenix]

I would like to personally thank the East pilots for holding the airline hostage over the past several years, keeping us standing in the wings and watching the industry wrap around US. It has become so crystal clear to me why US Air was always in trouble.

"Et tu, Brute?"

 

[biggie smalls]

Should be interesting. Adds another fleet type to WN (probably not for long as I expect they will shed the 717's). One thing for sure, they will be integrated and flying together long before us.

Best part......ALPA loses another airline and 1678 dues paying members!

Instructors came in Airtran class today and told new hires they hit the lottery, they will get the WN pay scale starting march 2011 and contract completed by the end of 2011. There are continuing to hire, also WN announce the hiring of approx 200 and more if needed. With all the options on B737 the Airtran guys are sitting pretty and happy to get rid of ALPA.

 

[traderjake]

DESERT

This could be cleared up very fast, have your friends out west say yes to DOH.

After what USAPA has done to them keeping us on LOA 93 is their revenge.

 

[aquagreen73s]

DESERT

This could be cleared up very fast, have your friends out west say yes to DOH.

Bethune was on CNBC today and at 4 min and 15 seconds into his interview he said that Parker has a cost structure that all the others envy. I think what he really meant to say was that pilot wages, thanks to LOA 93, is the envy of all the other CEOs.

It's either status quo for at least another couple of years and then the Nic, or a payraise now and the Nic now. Those are the two options.

 

[luvn737s]

DESERT

This could be cleared up very fast, have your friends out west say yes to DOH.

What does the west have to do with anything? The east has the votes and the monopoly on crafting the integration methodology. Why not throw that DOH contract out for a vote? There's no injunction anymore. What could USAPA be waiting for?

If you can't produce results when you have 100% of the control, when can you? And if you can't (or won't) what justification is there in keeping you around?

 

[RSVP767]

Instructors came in Airtran class today and told new hires they hit the lottery, they will get the WN pay scale starting march 2011 and contract completed by the end of 2011. There are continuing to hire, also WN announce the hiring of approx 200 and more if needed. With all the options on B737 the Airtran guys are sitting pretty and happy to get rid of ALPA.

This is the way it is done when you have a management that understands true leadership and a desire to run an airline.

 

[Freebird]

What does the west have to do with anything? The east has the votes and the monopoly on crafting the integration methodology. Why not throw that DOH contract out for a vote? There's no injunction anymore. What could USAPA be waiting for?

If you can't produce results when you have 100% of the control, when can you? And if you can't (or won't) what justification is there in keeping you around?

Because the cowards running Usapa are AFRAID that the East Pilots will not play into their power control and may actually think for themselves for a change. Usapa is not that change.

Usapa has been a failure for every pilot. Good job AFO's. Enjoy the LOA93.


USAPA = "Thanks for the Gravy Train" M. Johng Cleary

 

[Freebird]

Since when did you believe in pay parity before a single contract.

There should have been a single contract long ago. You'd have your pay pairity.

But instead, Usapa is chasing its tail and promising DOH. What was their mark? 90 days? (I dont subscribe to the propaganda and dont have my copy). How many days have the failed you by?

What year SWA FO pay tops the 25 year USAirways 320 Captain back East? Is it a 3 or 4 year FO?

You'll get'em next time. I just recieved a Thank You letter from Seham. He's enjoying his new AMG Mercedes. You should see the picture. It's parked in front of his Tudor, next to the Porsche 911 Turbo. Nice Lakefront. I think he bought it from an Airways pilot.


USAPA = Contract, get your contract ! Contract heeeeeere !!! (Maybe they'd do better selling peanuts at the Panthers game)

 

[Freebird]

This is the way it is done when you have a management that understands true leadership and a desire to run an airline.

I know you're not referring to Usapa as true leadership. Because they are a joke.

I wouldnt be so fast to bite the hand that feeds you either. Your past management and your hardline 'unionist' imbeciles are responsible for the failure of your US Airways. We just picked up the pieces....cheap.

In the present, Usapa has proven that they have no integrity. They choose not to honor binding arbitration. Yet ask to company to honor binding arbitration. hmmmmmm. Very contradictory.

The East pilots have a huge hand in preventing any mergers around here by your actions. Nobody wants to deal with your type. You have chosen to disrupt the system until its your way. DOH is DOA. This isnt your fathers airline. Thank God. And until you learn that or 'get learned' by the courts, you get to wallow in your dispair.

Your cowardly leadership in CLT loves your apathy. They are banking on the WEAK pilots back EAST to sit on their hands and let the money go out the window. So the Angry First Officers can steal from the West. Cowardly Indeed.

Management is ready to move forward, are you?


USAPA = We're not happy, until you're not happy.

 

[pitchlow]

The Nic award is basically fair. It's slotting by equipment and status. That's how the last three arbitrations, including Delta Northwest basically went. Everyone has the seniority to hold the same job after the merger as before.

The argument about putting a 2 years guy next to a 15 years gu betweeny is irrelevant. I'm a 25 year F/O because we shrunk from 400 to 230 airplanes while the West grew from 3 to 140 airplanes.

That's not the Wests' pilots faulty and no court is going to give me his job (which making me senior to him does) to make up for my lack of advancement.

You disagree with that position but what you can't disagree with is that's it's unethical to renege on a mutually agreed upon, legally binding arbitration because don't like the result.

Using the DL/NWA merger as a standard to pronounce the Nicolau Award as fair ignores the fact that relative position is interchangeable with DOH when both merging groups are identical, " not totally possible of course but some mergers are closer makeup wise than others ". Purely anecdotal but in several conversations with DL/NWA Jump seat riders the greatest DOH disparity is around four years. We spoke with a former NWA B757 F/O who lost about a year and a half. He was hired in, I think 1995. Mergers are never fair, but some more than others. The ALPA process guarantees one thing and only one thing. A seniority list. ALPA merger policy hopes for reasonable outcomes. I would say at best, the DL/NWA merger integration was not fair but mostly reasonable. Surely some DL/NWA pilots feel injured by the result but that's about as good as it gets in a Merger. When huge disparity's in pilot demographics lie at the foot of an arbitrator you hope that there might be some application of creative adjustments, no? Or is that to unreasonable? I digress but why do you discredit the character of a person or group for taking action to overturn or nullify what is perceived as harmful and unreasonable. The significance of ousting a powerful CBA is no small feat. From that single event the term reasonableness could be validated. You could also ignore the significance of ousting a National CBA and assume the motivations were based on greed.

 

[Freebird]

I digress but why do you discredit the character of a person or group for taking action to overturn or nullify what is perceived as harmful and unreasonable.

You could also ignore the significance of ousting a National CBA and assume the motivations were based on greed.

The East had an opportunity to 'horse trade' and they DEMANDED DOH. They were not willing to entertain anything other than DOH. They plan/planned to use their majority to impose DOH. They/You agreed to a process of Binding Arbitration, yet have failed to honor it. They have zero INTEGRITY. The Arbitration could have gone either way. We all knew that going in. Instead the East pilots "Entitlement" hopes to impose upon the West.

The East attempt to nullify has caused the mistrust beween the two groups and if further perpetuated by the RICO lawsuits and the continued push for DOH.

The EAST is based on GREED.

Usapa = The Greedy and the Needy. NO RAISE FOR YOU

 

[BoeingBoy]

Using the DL/NWA merger as a standard to pronounce the Nicolau Award as fair ignores the fact that relative position is interchangeable with DOH when both merging groups are identical, " not totally possible of course but some mergers are closer makeup wise than others ".

An old argument - it doesn't have to be DOH, just look, sound, taste, feel, and work like DOH. A rose by any other name...

You actually have it backwards. The greater the difference in the seniority makeup between the two airlines, the greater the need for something besides DOH to even out those differences. Otherwise, you end up with what East hopes to achieve here - nearly stapling the West pilots to the bottom of the East list. Taken to the extreme - a merger between US and B6 - your "fair" method would result in stapling the B6 pilots to the bottom of East list.

When huge disparity's in pilot demographics lie at the foot of an arbitrator you hope that there might be some application of creative adjustments, no? Or is that to unreasonable?

One can always hope for their favored outcome, just like I can hope to win the lottery. On the other hand, demanding a certain outcome is not hoping. The arbitrator did apply "creative adjustments" by denying the East what they demanded.

Jim

 

[AWE Dog]

The west is all about seniority without longevity. I should be senior now, Look I took a job with the great american west and I should be ahead of pilots with many,many times my LOS. Talk about GREED.

 

[aquagreen73s]

You actually have it backwards. The greater the difference in the seniority makeup between the two airlines, the greater the need for something besides DOH to even out those differences. Otherwise, you end up with what East hopes to achieve here - nearly stapling the West pilots to the bottom of the East list. Taken to the extreme - a merger between US and B6 - your "fair" method would result in stapling the B6 pilots to the East list.
Jim

I wonder if pitchlow realizes he was making the case against DOH?