US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/23- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Hate2fly]

Watching the West Crew News with Kirby.............desperation from the west pilots in the room?

Kirby has got the pulse of the east pilots! He tells the west pilots how he coined the term "lottery ticket that you can't cash".

He mentions Johnny Mac and the lottery ticket hanging in his office. Funny stuff! I kept thinking of Wye River during the video.

Nice American West shirt?

Time is running out. Keep the donations coming.

Hate

 

[RSVP767]

Seniority is like currency. That currency should buy you approximately what you could buy before. If all your 20 years got you was a right seat in an A320, that's what your new number should afford you.

When you exchange dollars for Euros you may end up with a different number, but you should be able to buy approximately the same amount of product. You can't go to the exchange window and claim that since it took you 20 years to accumulate your dollars, you should get a better exchange rate than the guy who acumulated the same amount in a shorter time. Maybe he just invested his time and money more wisely. Maybe he was just luckier. Maybe he had a rich uncle. The exchange rate remains the same.

If a West pilot wants a position in PHL, CLT or DCA all they have to do is pay up. Produce 20 years for a junior F/O position, 23 years for a senior F/O, 25 years for a junior Capt, or 28+ years for a senior Capt. You see, just like Europe, things are quite a bit more expensive on the East. And there is only one currency.....real dollars, not relative dollars.

Personally, I prefer the housing analogy. We will not provide the West with subsidized housing in the East! If they can afford it, fine. If not, keep saving up the money (LOS).

 

[luvn737s]

You will NEVER convince me....

These guys can't grasp the difference between seniority and longevity (there's no such thing as having 20 years seniority, by the way- only junior or senior), you have to ask if they understand the difference between airspeed and groundspeed?

"Captain, we're too slow"
"You rookie, can't you see our groundspeed is fine"
"But Captain, we're gonna stall!! You gotta add power or lower the nose or both!!"
"Stall? At this groundspeed? You'll never convince me..."
end of recording

 

[cleardirect]

Watching the West Crew News with Kirby.............desperation from the west pilots in the room?

Kirby has got the pulse of the east pilots! He tells the west pilots how he coined the term "lottery ticket that you can't cash".

He mentions Johnny Mac and the lottery ticket hanging in his office. Funny stuff! I kept thinking of Wye River during the video.

Nice American West shirt?

Time is running out. Keep the donations coming.

Hate

The clock keeps ticking on LOA 93. That will be your retirement contract.

 

[767jetz]

Well here's the thing: NONE of you will EVER convince me that putting 2 guys next to each other with a 15 year disparity in longevity with absolutely NO mitigation whatever makes ANY sense.

You will NEVER convince me...and it would appear that I have a LOT of company.

We'll, as I keep saying, you, me and everyone else here is entitled to an opinion. We are not trying to, nor do we need to convince you. And you very well may have a LOT of company. The only people that need to be convinced are the judges, maybe a jury, and a minority of east pilots to combine with the west and get rid of USAPA.

 

[luvthe9]

Then continue to live under LOA 93. That is your choice.

Vote no all day everyday I don't care. But that will be your only choice. Get off of LAO93 with the Nicolau or live with LOA93 until you retire.

And you have to get use to just "going along for the ride" that's about your only choice now and when the ruling comes in next month I think you know what that will mean (if it goes in our favor) by the way how's that NIC thing working for you guys so far???

 

[Tailwinds]

So far? A lot better than your current pay rates.

 

[traderjake]

Well here's the thing: NONE of you...not some UAL guy, not some westie know-it-alls, not even Jim...will EVER convince me that putting 2 guys next to each other with a 15 year disparity in longevity with absolutely NO mitigation whatever makes ANY sense

You'll never convince anyone in a court room that putting a Reserve F/O or a guy with no job ahead of a Captain makes any sense.

 

[cleardirect]

And you have to get use to just "going along for the ride" that's about your only choice now and when the ruling comes in next month I think you know what that will mean (if it goes in our favor) by the way how's that NIC thing working for you guys so far???

Hows that DOH working out for you?

We have always been a long for the ride. But you see the west has a brake. We are not going to let you steal from us or take the good parts of our contract in exchange for your benefit.

You east guys sure are putting a lot of stock in winning snap back. What is plan B when that fails?

Have you seen what CLT had to say about snap back?

Again, to make this abundantly clear, as of today there is no news regarding this very important grievance. We expect to have an indication of the direction the Arbitrator within the next several weeks and when his position is available, whether it is good or bad, we will let our pilots know. Remember, even if Arbitrator Kasher agrees to the language in LOA 93 returning us to Restructuring pay rates, we still have vacation and work rules in LOA 93 that need immediate attention. Simply put, no matter what the outcome, we need to fight to rid ourselves of LOA 93!! The following is the latest Grievance Committee update.

Not a supremely confident statement I would say. Even your CLT reps know that you are going to lose. Otherwise why be concerned about the rest of the contract? what have all of you said? If you get snap back there will be no contract. Better check your leaders. You need updated marching orders.

 

[KTM300]

So what was the mitigation for that 15 year disparity prior to the merger? What you demand is to be made whole (or as close as you can get) at the expense of the West side - a windfall that someone else pays for. What you're effectively saying is that the West pilots had the good fortune of not stagnating or moving backwards like you so they should be forced to make up for your misfortune by giving you their advancement.

Jim

BeBe,

Are you kidding me? " So what was the mitigation for that 15 year disparity prior to the merger?"

Look in the mirror,pal! IT'S You! The East pilots knew that by saving this company, the reward was to move up a rapidly retiring pilot list. No one is demanding to be made whole by anyone in PHX expense, however, when roughly 60+ guys that got hired in 1996 at a stagnated company(That's right...No one hired at America West from June 24,1991 to March 31, 1996), are placed in front of pilots that have provided far more to the combined carrier, all of which were hired in 1985, (IOWs 11 years disparity), that is a windfall, my friend.

 

[767jetz]

EDITED BY MODERATOR TO REMOVE DELETED PERSONAL REMARKS


"We" refers to everyone except the USAPA supporters on this forum, who as I said do not need to convince you of anything. You are entitled to your opinions. No one is trying to convince you otherwise. Just trying to get you to live by your own rules or shed light on the hypocrisy. (you know, the whole "keep what you brought" thing.) Do I really need to say it again?

And if I were a west pilot I'd gladly tell you so. However I am not. I know it is apparently REALLY hard for the east pilots here to understand and accept this, but a person does not need to work for USAirways in order to know the difference between right and wrong, have an opinion about what USAPA is trying to do to the west pilots, or have an interest in seeing that your DOH cram down and attempt to weasel out of binding arbitration does not happen. Bad precedents can have a negative impact on everyone in this industry. There hasn't been a DOH integration among pilots in this country in how long? There will probably never be one again.

The real question is, WHY is it so important to believe that I am a west pilot?

 

[767jetz]

The East pilots knew that by saving this company, the reward was to move up a rapidly retiring pilot list.

The problem with your theory is that the East pilots did not single-handedly save the company at all. If you had taken concessions and avoided bankruptcy, (or emerged by yourselves) and survived as a stand alone airline (like AA, UA, DL or CO for example), then you could claim that to the victors go the spoils. But the reality is that the merger saved your airline, and what you did was stay on life support long enough for that to happen. I'm not bring up who saved whom. For the sake of argument you both saved each other. Therefore you can not claim all the rewards for yourselves. That's plain theft.

 

[Black Swan]

"We" refers to everyone except the USAPA supporters on this forum, who as I said do not need to convince you of anything. You are entitled to your opinions. No one is trying to convince you otherwise. Just trying to get you to live by your own rules or shed light on the hypocrisy. (you know, the whole "keep what you brought" thing.) Do I really need to say it again?

And if I were a west pilot I'd gladly tell you so. However I am not. I know it is apparently REALLY hard for the east pilots here to understand and accept this, but a person does not need to work for USAirways in order to know the difference between right and wrong, have an opinion about what USAPA is trying to do to the west pilots, or have an interest in seeing that your DOH cram down and attempt to weasel out of binding arbitration does not happen. Bad precedents can have a negative impact on everyone in this industry. There hasn't been a DOH integration among pilots in this country in how long? There will probably never be one again.

The real question is, WHY is it so important to believe that I am a west pilot?

The real question ? Because it is really hard to believe a supposed UAL pilot with his/her own merger going on devotes more time to the one that does not directly involve same. Does that help explain our suspicions?

 

[aquagreen73s]

But the reality is that the merger saved your airline, and what you did was stay on life support long enough for that to happen.

Exactly. That's what it took to get them to the alter and tie the not. They had to walk themselves down the aisle, but unfortunately we had no idea what we were getting involved with. Heck, we didn't even make it past the honeymoon before things were headed south. The good news is that our spouse is headed back to rehab in federal court and this time there won't be any early discharges. We'll get through this.

 

[Black Swan]

The Kirby video was very interesting. Now we all know where this thing stands.