US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/23- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[nic4us]

Please refresh everyone's memory about these"persons of authority" or you still dwelling on that desert judge crap that doesn't exist anymore.

Sure, no problem.

The first persons would have been Parker and Lakefield, in their letter to all employees entitiled "joint statement of labor principles".

The second persons would have been the east's own Mereger Committee members.

The third person would have been arbitrator Nicolau.

The fourth person would have been ALPA president John Prater.

The fifth person would have been West merger attorney J. Freund.

The sixth person would have been ( I have forgotten his name) the lawyer Bradford interviewed who authored the famous letter entered into evidence in the Addington trial, "don't let anybody know your changing the union to get DOH".

The seventh persons would have been the West legal team.

The eight person would have been Judge Wake.

The ninth persons, (coincidentally) would be the 9th circuit court of appeals. That has warned usapa that if you push this DOH bull, you are going to get sued and likely lose an "unquestionabley ripe DFR".


I am sure I may have missed a few, but tell me, what person of authority has told you that you should have even the most remote expectation to get DOH? or are you still listening to that little lawyer?

 

[BoeingBoy]

A guy hired 15 years after I was can slide in to any position ahead of me...and you don't think that's a windfall?

If you were creating a combined longevity list you'd have a point. When doing a combined seniority list...well, no point. Unless, of course, you consider that the West pilots moving up their seniority list faster than East pilots moving up theirs is a "windfall"- i.e. the West pilots don't deserve the seniority they have on the West list.

Jim

 

[mikey60]

Sure, no problem.

The first persons would have been Parker and Lakefield, in their letter to all employees entitiled "joint statement of labor principles".

The second persons would have been the east's own Mereger Committee members.

The third person would have been arbitrator Nicolau.

The fourth person would have been ALPA president John Prater.

The fifth person would have been West merger attorney J. Freund.

The sixth person would have been ( I have forgotten his name) the lawyer Bradford interviewed who authored the famous letter entered into evidence in the Addington trial, "don't let anybody know your changing the union to get DOH".

The seventh persons would have been the West legal team.

The eight person would have been Judge Wake.

The ninth persons, (coincidentally) would be the 9th circuit court of appeals. That has warned usapa that if you push this DOH bull, you are going to get sued and likely lose an "unquestionabley ripe DFR".


I am sure I may have missed a few, but tell me, what person of authority has told you that you should have even the most remote expectation to get DOH? or are you still listening to that little lawyer?

"Little lawyer"......shore kicked your butts...

 

[767jetz]

I am merely saying that Mr. 767jetz has said on numerous occasions that he does not work here. He made a statement about bringing something to the table. If he in fact does not work for USAirways (though his unusually high volume of post on the USAirways forum would indicate otherwise), I just politely excused him from the table

You are correct. I do not work for USAirways. Never have. Never wanted to.

I think just about everyone else (and I suspect even you) understood my point. But just in case I was unclear, I am saying that the East seems to like the idea of keeping what one has brought to the table with regard to the pilots in the US/AWA merger. Something stated repetitively by many east posters. However it sounds like the east does not want to keep their furloughed status after 17 years, or their junior status after even 20 years at the new airline, even though THAT is what the east brought to the table. I am simply either trying to get you to live by your own rules, or shed light on the hypocrisy.

As for politely excusing me, I'll just point out that I did not ask to be excused, nor would I ever direct such a request to someone with no status to grant it. Therefore I think I'll stay and continue to voice my opinion on matters that affect the industry and profession in which I am employed.

On a personal note, I am truly flattered by the attention I receive from many of the USAPA supporters. It must mean that my opinions are held in a high regard, to warrant such a response.

 

[nic4us]

"Little lawyer"......shore kicked your butts...

His legs are too short to reach our butts.....has he learned to count to 25 yet?

 

[767jetz]

GREAT jizz

No I said dribble, please check Websters. 1.to flow,or let flow,in drops. Tell us where you worked the ramp was it Pit or Jfk you have posted both? Probably still do.

Drivel - to speak in a silly or stupid manner. - silly, stupid talk.; childish nonsense.

I still think drivel is more appropriate in the context of your usage. But hey, it's just an opinion.

I never mentioned PIT. I did work ramp at JFK for UA many years ago before being hired as a pilot. Hey, maybe you guys can help me get my DOH back to my Ramp Service days!

 

[mikey60]

This message is from the keyboard of nic4us: Please do not bring up anything about that DOH thing. My letters that make up the words " unquestionably, ripe, and DFR" are worn out and need to be replaced but our owner is paying all that money for his USAPA dues and can't afford it.

 

[nic4us]

A guy hired 15 years after I was can slide in to any position ahead of me...and you don't think that's a windfall? Yeah, right, OK fine.



You may consider it toothless but I don't see anybody cutting in line ahead of me yet. Suits me just fine.

A guy hired 15 years behind you???...hmmm.. al little math tells me you are likely a 1990 hire. How many years did you spend on furlough? How soon was that recall letter coming absent the merger? Do you think it is okay that you would jump from furloughed to being senior to West captains with many many more years continuous length of service than a 1989-1990 hire who was furloughed?

I am sure seperate ops does suit you fine, you have benefitted at others expense. You have been enabled to do so by an association who happens to have a DFR to, yet harms others, so that you can reap that benfit.

I was wrong, the east's and usapa's demand for DOH is not "toothless", it is reckless and ignorant.

 

[767jetz]

A guy hired 15 years after I was can slide in to any position ahead of me...and you don't think that's a windfall?

Yes, that's correct. Because YOS does not equal seniority. The seat and fleet you can hold does.

And by the way, ALPA merger policy does not prohibit a windfall. Only a windfall at the expense of one side. Otherwise one side getting a larger raise than the other would not be allowed. But pay parity does happen with a joint contract, and the side getting the bigger raise gets a windfall, but not at the expense of the other side. You lost your seniority by a function of working for a declining Airline for many years. Hence, 17 year got an east pilot furloughed. Just like 20 years got you a junior A320 f/o position. That 8 year A320 captain from the west was on a quicker line than you. Even if you personally consider it a windfall, it didn't happen at your expense.

Sorry, not a windfall. Not at your expense. It's a seniority list, not a YOS list. Not a DOH list. This is something that only USAPA supporters fail to grasp. Regardless of opinions on the matter, eventually reality will settle in, people will get tired of LOA93, the courts will rule, and more and more people on the east will decide that USAPA has run it course and it's time to move on.

 

[nic4us]

This message is from the keyboard of nic4us: Please do not bring up anything about that DOH thing. My letters that make up the words " unquestionably, ripe, and DFR" are worn out and need to be replaced but our owner is paying all that money for his USAPA dues and can't afford it.

This mesage is from the keyboard of Nic4us:....my owner does not pay usapa dues.

Sawwee Lee, no money from me, you will have to keep milking the blind faithful DOH believers. Having to rewrite those strikens briefs, are you going to charge them twice for that?

 

[Benz M-100]

Well here's the thing: NONE of you...not some UAL guy, not some westie know-it-alls, not even Jim...will EVER convince me that putting 2 guys next to each other with a 15 year disparity in longevity with absolutely NO mitigation whatever makes ANY sense. It is simply madness to think this would simply be humbly accepted. I've heard all the arguments proffered here and elsewhere for years and I'm sorry...NO, NYET, AINT HAPPNIN! You will NEVER convince me...and it would appear that I have a LOT of company. So just keep trying to sell that nic thingy, but don't try it on me...or the vast majority of my co-workers.

Oh and by the way- Hired in mid '87 and never furloughed.

 

[Run Like Hell]

Well here's the thing: NONE of you...not some UAL guy, not some westie know-it-alls, not even Jim...will EVER convince me that putting 2 guys next to each other with a 15 year disparity in longevity with absolutely NO mitigation whatever makes ANY sense. It is simply madness to think this would simply be humbly accepted. I've heard all the arguments proffered here and elsewhere for years and I'm sorry...NO, NYET, AINT HAPPNIN! You will NEVER convince me...and it would appear that I have a LOT of company. So just keep trying to sell that nic thingy, but don't try it on me...or the vast majority of my co-workers.

Oh and by the way- Hired in mid '87 and never furloughed.

And your position on the day of the merger? Exact number out of active pilots would be fine, let me guess? something like 2956 out of 3000? That would make you a junior reserve on a narrow body?

Sorry , that's your seniority.


(by the way, that's exactly what your going to get! Better get used to it)

 

[cleardirect]

Well here's the thing: NONE of you...not some UAL guy, not some westie know-it-alls, not even Jim...will EVER convince me that putting 2 guys next to each other with a 15 year disparity in longevity with absolutely NO mitigation whatever makes ANY sense. It is simply madness to think this would simply be humbly accepted. I've heard all the arguments proffered here and elsewhere for years and I'm sorry...NO, NYET, AINT HAPPNIN! You will NEVER convince me...and it would appear that I have a LOT of company. So just keep trying to sell that nic thingy, but don't try it on me...or the vast majority of my co-workers.

Oh and by the way- Hired in mid '87 and never furloughed.

Then continue to live under LOA 93. That is your choice.

Vote no all day everyday I don't care. But that will be your only choice. Get off of LAO93 with the Nicolau or live with LOA93 until you retire.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Well here's the thing: NONE of you...not some UAL guy, not some westie know-it-alls, not even Jim...will EVER convince me that putting 2 guys next to each other with a 15 year disparity in longevity with absolutely NO mitigation whatever makes ANY sense.

So what was the mitigation for that 15 year disparity prior to the merger? What you demand is to be made whole (or as close as you can get) at the expense of the West side - a windfall that someone else pays for. What you're effectively saying is that the West pilots had the good fortune of not stagnating or moving backwards like you so they should be forced to make up for your misfortune by giving you their advancement.

Jim

 

[Run Like Hell]

So what was the mitigation for that 15 year disparity prior to the merger? What you demand is to be made whole (or as close as you can get) at the expense of the West side - a windfall that someone else pays for. What you're effectively saying is that the West pilots had the good fortune of not stagnating or moving backwards like you so they should be forced to make up for your misfortune by giving you their advancement.

Jim

Pretty much hits the nail on the head! The east was greatfull for the merger for about a month. Then it was "how can we leverage this to our (the easts) advantage" , and they have never looked back.

Five and a half years later they are still under LOA 93 and probably will be forever. There seems to be some urgency all of a sudden by the company to get it done, from the average west perspective, we are in no hurry!

Kirby, Kirby + 10% or Kirby plus anything is not going to buy our co-operation if it involves DOH. The east has far more to gain from a new contract than the west.

Let's see, the east wants DOH and to be blessed with the Lions Share of the value of a new contract, hmmmm sounds pretty greedy to me.