US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/23- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[nycbusdriver]

Absolutely no compromise possible. We came this far in the courts, why quit now? I believe that it was former AAA MEC chairman Jack Stephan who made that statement about the vote for usapa insuring the Nic.

And, somehow keeping on property the ALPA that formally presented the Nicolau abomination to Parker was NOT insuring that list? Please tell me how that scenario might have played out.

 

[mikey60]

The trouble for the DOH hardliners isn't so much people like Lance and others who are against USAPA and want ALPA back since that basically fixed number (although if there is ever a representational election we all know which way they'll vote).

The problem is those who generally support USAPA but are growing tired of the fighting between the pilot groups and not having a new contract. As one recently put it on another website, "It's time to stop fighting among ourselves and join together to get the best contract we can get." The number of those who were happy to see ALPA gone but are unhappy with what's happening now appears to be increasing.

Jim

Get something stright , "We" the backers of USAPA are more determined then ever, DOH or nothing. I don't know where you get the idea that the pilots of the East tired of the situation but get out on the line and you will see we are more determined then ever.

 

[Black Swan]

Well, there have been no home runs in this game on either side, and winning Addington only provides for Nicolau being in the TA to be voted on. I think many people are so engrossed in the process, they lose sight of what the goal is.

No, you can't bargain away the Nicolau, but you need to move beyond it as the sole issue. The east will continue to have a numbers advantage and USAPA has had uncontested control over the flow of (mis) information. Ignoring these facts will make any expensive Addigton victory a hollow one.

Luvn you are right, there is a lot of loss of sight of what the goal is. I really don't see Addington validating anything really, but that will be borne out as time moves on. You think there is any room for compromise or not?

 

[Black Swan]

Even if Kasher awards it (which I doubt) the company won't have to pay it, right?

According to Userpa, binding arbitration is only a proposal.

If the company doesn't like the "proposal" then they don't have to abid by it.

Let me guess, this is different.........

No guess. It is different. This is true.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Get something stright "Jimmy" , "We" the backers of USAPA are more determined then ever, DOH or nothing. I don't know where you get the idea that the pilots of the East tired of the situation but get out on the line and you will see we are more determined then ever.

You're welcome to your opinion, just don't confuse it with fact. Just because the DOH hardliners like you fail to see something doesn't mean it isn't there.

Jim

 

[N924PS]

Get something stright "Jimmy" , "We" the backers of USAPA are more determined then ever, DOH or nothing. I don't know where you get the idea that the pilots of the East tired of the situation but get out on the line and you will see we are more determined then ever.

A DOH cram down by the East, especially with USAPA's Conditions and Restrictions, is more abhorrent than the mutually agreed to binding arbitration award. If the courts should happen to allow it it would be shameful.

"DOH or nothing" has gotten the USAirways pilots, East or West, nowhere except making opposing law firms rich.

Your determination will cause many of us to spend the last 10 years of our USAirways career on LOA 93 making less than we did 20 years ago. All the while, senior management laughing all the way to the bank, reveling over the pilot's "Civil War".

I am out on the line, and I don't see the level of determination you do. Many pilots I know have given the USAPA "experiment" its due time and are ready to move on to that elusive industry standard contract. A tentative agreement (and not the Kirby proposal) including the Nicolau Award has a pretty good chance of passing. It's time to move on and stop the insanity and improve the lot of all pilots on the property.

 

[luvthe9]

Get something stright " , "We" the backers of USAPA are more determined then ever, DOH or nothing. I don't know where you get the idea that the pilots of the East tired of the situation but get out on the line and you will see we are more determined then ever.

He is so out of touch and just putting the ALPA spin on it!!!

 

[Black Swan]

Nope compromise not possible, even if the west were open to one (which it is not) The Userpa election removed the wests representation no one left to negotiate with, Now any Userpa action to compromise the Nic, ripens the DFR.

I'm paraphrasing here a bit but one of your east reps pointed that risk out during the campaign and said something to the effect of "The surest way to insure that the nic gets inplemented as-is, is to vote for USAPA"

And that one that said that was Jack Stephan, AAA ALPA MEC leader. Maybe he had something at stake and that is why he said it, No?

 

[luvn737s]

Luvn you are right, there is a lot of loss of sight of what the goal is. I really don't see Addington validating anything really, but that will be borne out as time moves on. You think there is any room for compromise or not?

Perhaps globally there is "compromise" in a sense, but it would take Cleary and USAPA completely changing their modus operandi up to this point. There can be no compromise on the Nicolau list as it is the axis upon which the entire integration turns. Claims of fairness and blaming former bargaining agents have passed their time. USAPA can compromise by striking DOH as it's sole integration methodology in the C&BL's and it can compromise by fully including the west as an equal partner in crafting contract provisions that will satisfy both sides inclusive of Nicolau. The west can "compromise" to the extent that if these efforts are genuine, the west can begin the process of trusting the USAPA leadership (Cleary must go, his character cannot be salvaged at this point), and building a unified union.

The bigger question is: Is there any will to build a union on any basis other than the tyranny of the majority? Answer that and you will see the future of USAPA.

 

[N924PS]

Perhaps globally there is "compromise" in a sense, but it would take Cleary and USAPA completely changing their modus operandi up to this point. There can be no compromise on the Nicolau list as it is the axis upon which the entire integration turns. Claims of fairness and blaming former bargaining agents have passed their time. USAPA can compromise by striking DOH as it's sole integration methodology in the C&BL's and it can compromise by fully including the west as an equal partner in crafting contract provisions that will satisfy both sides inclusive of Nicolau. The west can "compromise" to the extent that if these efforts are genuine, the west can begin the process of trusting the USAPA leadership (Cleary must go, his character cannot be salvaged at this point), and building a unified union.

The bigger question is: Is there any will to build a union on any basis other than the tyranny of the majority? Answer that and you will see the future of USAPA.

Well said and on the button.

 

[snapthis]

Whaaat... sarcasm from you... never!

You are not being sarcastic about my sarcasm are you?

 

[Edward]

Folks some of you are still having trouble with the board rules. Do NOT post in here until you read post 1 in this thread which has the rules that are at the top of all forums.

Also a warning on moderator reports. We are getting reports that are wasting our time. Do not report something just because you don't like it.

 

[luvthe9]

Well said and on the button.

Do you really think you will be #1 in PHX anytime soon?j

 

[Captain Underpants]

Some good news for all.... The company has officially announced via CBS message the additional recall of 15 furloughed pilots. They also said they are continuing to evaluate staffing with the hope of eventually recalling all the furloughed pilots. This recall is to staff the additional pilots needed for the recently announced increased CLT international services. Recalls since September will now total 55 East and 40 West.

(My opinion and not from the company annoucement)
Depending on how many furloughed East pilots accept recall or resign from the list we will be getting close to the point where the West furloughs will begin to be offered East vacancies as required prior to hiring additional pilots. With 4th quarter capacity projected to be up 4% over last year, new FAR pilots rest rules next year and accelerating attrition we will hopefully see everyone back in 2011.

underpants

 

[Barrister]

A DOH cram down by the East, especially with USAPA's Conditions and Restrictions, is more abhorrent than the mutually agreed to binding arbitration award. If the courts should happen to allow it it would be shameful.

"DOH or nothing" has gotten the USAirways pilots, East or West, nowhere except making opposing law firms rich.

Your determination will cause many of us to spend the last 10 years of our USAirways career on LOA 93 making less than we did 20 years ago. All the while, senior management laughing all the way to the bank, reveling over the pilot's "Civil War".

I am out on the line, and I don't see the level of determination you do. Many pilots I know have given the USAPA "experiment" its due time and are ready to move on to that elusive industry standard contract. A tentative agreement (and not the Kirby proposal) including the Nicolau Award has a pretty good chance of passing. It's time to move on and stop the insanity and improve the lot of

Yea and throw the 1500 or so F/Os here under the bus. A disguting notion.
Spoken like a true "it won't affect me" warrior.

NICDOA
NPJB