US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/23- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[exB717Flyer]

So, if USAPA and all East pilots will just embrace the Nic, the company will also roll over and sign on to a contract that makes us all happy???

Let's try it and find out, shall we?

 

[crazystnic]

Sorry boys I don't see this being over anytime soon. Maybe never. I don't agree with Jim and a few others who say once the court states which way this goes then all will just sing kumbaya. (on either side)... Heck the WEST just took this to the supreme court. Does that give you an indication of the hatred.
I also feel that if sides really wanted to get together and work out a compromise they could even though there are no "sides" because of the single Union.

And I also think the NIC will get voted down in a NY minute if it's part of any contract , even with a raise...

In my opinion this thing will drag on for many years. I honestly never ecpected a contact anytime soon. Our best hope is the pay arbitration.

but I don't see us accepting the NIC ..... I love how Luv'n says we should just bend over and move on. Not gonna happen.

 

[Ames]

Sorry boys I don't see this being over anytime soon. Maybe never. I don't agree with Jim and a few others who say once the court states which way this goes then all will just sing kumbaya. (on either side)... Heck the WEST just took this to the supreme court. Does that give you an indication of the hatred.
I also feel that if sides really wanted to get together and work out a compromise they could even though there are no "sides" because of the single Union.

And I also think the NIC will get voted down in a NY minute if it's part of any contract , even with a raise...

In my opinion this thing will drag on for many years. I honestly never ecpected a contact anytime soon. Our best hope is the pay arbitration.

but I don't see us accepting the NIC ..... I love how Luv'n says we should just bend over and move on. Not gonna happen.

So..... a compromise could be worked out as long as it's the west doing the compromising. Yet it is only the actions of the west which indicate hatred.....

You guys really do live on another planet.

 

[crazystnic]

So..... a compromise could be worked out as long as it's the west doing the compromising. Yet it is only the actions of the west which indicate hatred.....

You guys really do live on another planet.

I never said it would only be the west compromising. I've got ideas but it's a waste of band with to throw them around here ... Unless both sides sit down together and agree that they will abandon the approach they have been taking and move on ... it's futil...

and both sides hate each other...

I love how you guys like putting words in our mouths....

Like how we plan on stapling or putting a furloughed guy ahead of your captains.... You left out the C+R that prevent that.

rhetoric some more... why don't you

 

[Ames]

I never said it would only be the west compromising. I've got ideas but it's a waste of band with to throw them around here ... Unless both sides sit down together and agree that they will abandon the approach they have been taking and move on ... it's futil...

and both sides hate each other...

I love how you guys like putting words in our mouths....

Like how we plan on stapling or putting a furloughed guy ahead of your captains.... You left out the C+R that prevent that.

rhetoric some more... why don't you

The east REFUSED to negotiate when negotiation was part of the process. The west was willing. NOW, the east wants to negotiate, after FINAL and BINDING arbitration because they didn't get their way. That in itself is the west doing the compromising.

No one is putting words in your mouths. I was a captain when the acquisition occurred and if we were to get DOH (even with your precious conditions and restrictions) a guy I know on the east (who was on furlough -and not working for MDA) would be nearly 700 numbers senior to me.

It is clear that no one is backing down (especially the west) You assumed we wouldn't fight but were sorely surprised. This is a fight to the end. You asked for it, you got it.

 

[Metroyet]

Like how we plan on stapling or putting a furloughed guy ahead of your captains.... You left out the C+R that prevent that.

rhetoric some more... why don't you

Okay so if another Mass 9-11 style furlough happens, Will the ridiculous C+R you're referring to allow a guy who was on furlough to keep HIS job while West CAPTAINS hit the street?

Answer: YES. That fact is "rhetoric"?

If C+R would make YOU sleep better, just accept the Nic with whatever C+R the WEST FEELS LIKE GRANTING you...just like the EAST is attempting to do to the West.

You wouldn't have any problems with that now would you?

 

[crazystnic]

The east REFUSED to negotiate when negotiation was part of the process. The west was willing. NOW, the east wants to negotiate, after FINAL and BINDING arbitration because they didn't get their way. That in itself is the west doing the compromising.

No one is putting words in your mouths. I was a captain when the acquisition occurred and if we were to get DOH (even with your precious conditions and restrictions) a guy I know on the east (who was on furlough -and not working for MDA) would be nearly 700 numbers senior to me.

It is clear that no one is backing down (especially the west) You assumed we wouldn't fight but were sorely surprised. This is a fight to the end. You asked for it, you got it.

\\\

You are living in the past again and re gurgitating what we should have done... that's nice but it doesn't really acomplish much does it?

The NIC in my opinion will never be part of a contract even with the courts involvment...

I'm glad your going to fight to the end... that will acomplish a lot. I don't need to negotiate...

it's up to you guys.. whatever you want...

 

[aquagreen73s]

\\\

You are living in the past again and re gurgitating what we should have done... that's nice but it doesn't really acomplish much does it?

The NIC in my opinion will never be part of a contract even with the courts involvment...

I'm glad your going to fight to the end... that will acomplish a lot. I don't need to negotiate...

it's up to you guys.. whatever you want...

No, it's up to the East. You accomplished through USAPA exactly what you all set out to do, which is to marginalize the West. The only recourse we had was via the courts. Beyond that, we in the West are still along for the ride. If enough Easties want to live under LOA 93 for a decade plus, then that's your choice. Go for it. The West has given up hope that the East will ever get their s**t together. It's no wonder why your careers have been so miserable.

 

[Barrister]

So..... a compromise could be worked out as long as it's the west doing the compromising. Yet it is only the actions of the west which indicate hatred.....

You guys really do live on another planet.

Just flew with a gut who was a 727 pilot here when the West guy just above him was 10 years old. You are right
NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.......and I told him that according to the math experts out West it was only going to cost
him 2 years to upgrade.....with 1300 guys coming in on top.....Yea thanks NIC....may we have another.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[hp_fa]

So have we had a $eham sighting yet in Arizona today at one of the expensive hotels or is he going to simply reach out and touch someone tomorrow?

 

[luvn737s]

Yeah, he's at the Bilk-more.

 

[luvn737s]

I love how Luv'n says we should just bend over and move on. Not gonna happen.

No, if you actually read what I wrote, I said that USAPA's credibility and therefore their negotiating leverage is tied to their resolution of the Seniority Integration. Because they can capture the benefits of DOH by doing nothing and delaying a contract, they really don't care about negoitiating and can spew their "Rah, Rah" rhetoric with little consequence. However that shouldn't be financed (even in part) by the group that loses out by delaying a contract - the west. That was what Wake and the jury saw and what was implied by the "unquestionably ripe" comment from the 9th.

So don't tell us that USAPA is crafting any sort of industry leading contract. They are simply charging the west 2% + dubious assessments to wait out attrition.

I doubt even that "old villain" ALPA would stoop that low.

 

[Ames]

\\\

You are living in the past again and re gurgitating what we should have done... that's nice but it doesn't really acomplish much does it?

The NIC in my opinion will never be part of a contract even with the courts involvment...

I'm glad your going to fight to the end... that will acomplish a lot. I don't need to negotiate...

it's up to you guys.. whatever you want...

What you should have done has everything to do with what is happening now. Had you honored the system you agreed to use and the resulting binding arbitration we would not be in court.... but we are.

The Nic WILL be part of the next contract or there won't be one.

We are fighting to the end and you may well be living with LOA 93 until the end.

You don't need to negotiate. You need to honor your agreements. Aside from that, fly safely at the lowest pay in the industry.

 

[crazystnic]

What you should have done has everything to do with what is happening now. Had you honored the system you agreed to use and the resulting binding arbitration we would not be in court.... but we are.

The Nic WILL be part of the next contract or there won't be one.

We are fighting to the end and you may well be living with LOA 93 until the end.

You don't need to negotiate. You need to honor your agreements. Aside from that, fly safely at the lowest pay in the industry.

ames,

my opinion is ALPA should of stepped in and said that the NIC doesn't meet ALPA merger policy. When was the last itme yoiu had a neutral disagree with the arbitrator? NEVER.....

ALPA and prater should of said this doesn't meet ALPA merger policy.... Windfalls and diminished career expectations are still part of the merger policy..

but they didnt' live up to their agreement either...

and that's why we are where we are...

good luck...
I still think you are going to need it.

 

[aquagreen73s]

my opinion is ALPA should of stepped in and said that the NIC doesn't meet ALPA merger policy.

The entire ALPA BOD looked at what the East had to say, they examined the Nicolau, and then forwarded it to the company who accepted the Nicolau. So your opinion is just that, an opinion.

When was the last itme yoiu had a neutral disagree with the arbitrator?

I attached the Brucia dissent below. He goes out of his way to praise Nicolau, the other neutral, and the final product.

ALPA and prater should of said this doesn't meet ALPA merger policy.... Windfalls and diminished career expectations are still part of the merger policy..

A jury of 12 read the award and didn't agree with you. That was your only crack at getting a jury to hear your case. Next time it will be a federal judge and that time is now with the company's declaratory action.

but they didnt' live up to their agreement either...

and that's why we are where we are...

You're under LOA 93 now and until you decide to accept what you are bound to accept.

good luck...
I still think you are going to need it.

Luck has nothing to do with it. It comes down to being right.